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sweetplantveal t1_iy9arb2 wrote

Reply to comment by Various_Succotash_79 in ELI5 Are cows constantly producing milk? by ms_myco

Fun fact, there's a dairy industry, there's a veal industry. Until we figure out how to produce only female calves. And you butcher them young because the beef isn't very good from adult dairy cows.

It'd be nice if there was a brand of high welfare veal.

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Various_Succotash_79 t1_iy9ba3o wrote

> And you butcher them young because the beef isn't very good from adult dairy cows.

Dairy breeds are used as beef cattle too. The meat is just as good if they're slaughtered at 18 months like usual. It's just that many retired dairy cows are 10+ years old so their meat is tough.

But it's easier to sell male dairy calves to be veal than to bottle-feed them long enough to go on pasture.

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bobnla14 t1_iyc374k wrote

That is why a lot of their beef is used in dog food, cat food, other pet food, and canned meats like stews. Long simmerring makes it more tender.

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interstat t1_iyac381 wrote

shit what dairy cows are using 10+ year old cows

Most bigger farms Ive been to they are lucky to be past 6

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soylamulatta t1_iy9tind wrote

"high welfare veal" lmao what an oxymoron

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yukon-flower t1_iya3hbs wrote

Does "veal" by definition necessitate that the calf is crammed in a box so it cannot use its muscles, or can it in theory include any young calf even if it lived a free and happy life somewhere but just didn't make it past a few months of age?

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soylamulatta t1_iya4dpj wrote

If the calf were sick and didn't make it then why would we be eating it's flesh? Why would we kill someone who is living a happy life and didn't ask to die?

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IYXMnx1Sa3qWM1IZ t1_iyab376 wrote

People enjoy eating meat, and at the moment that means that an animal needs to die for that to happen. That said, it would be preferable to have the animal be treated humanely during its life.

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soylamulatta t1_iyabgye wrote

You didn't outright say it but a lot of people would read your comment as having only two options. The first is treating an animal cruelly and then eating them and the second is giving the animal a better life and then eating them. And we have to keep in mind that it doesn't matter what farm the animal grew up on they are all likely going to a similar slaughterhouse. Although people like eating meat a lot of them don't realize what truly goes on in the animal agricultural industry. And they don't realize there's actually a third option - not eating any animal products at all. I think if more people knew how animal agriculture works and realized that abstaining from animal products is an option then more people would not eat meat at all.

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chortling2 t1_iybqywn wrote

Right? Redefining food as necessity rather than an indulgence for future generations has got to happen.

People like going into space but don't want to eat space food? The hypocrisy of humans knows no bounds.

Another example: people like luxury boats and are realistic about not being able to afford big ass yatchs. Yet ask them to live in an urban small space and they balk. No, we need single family homes and will fight tooth and nail to preserve our "right" to disallow multi unit housing of any kind.

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yukon-flower t1_iyfd5zd wrote

I'm not going to argue with you on those points! Just speaking theoretically here. I mean, suppose a healthy baby cow got struck by a fallen tree or died in some other sort of physical accident.

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sweetplantveal t1_iya3mgo wrote

It's a male dairy calf. The rest of its life and how it's treated is up to the farmer. Why couldn't they have a great life pre butchering?

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soylamulatta t1_iya47xr wrote

why would we butcher someone who has a great life and didn't ask to die (likely die horribly)?

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sweetplantveal t1_iya4jdw wrote

Look. I'm not here to argue all of the merits and issues with eating any meat in any situation. Pretty far off topic.

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soylamulatta t1_iyaa5f6 wrote

Redditor: asks question

Other redditor: responds to question

Redditor: I'm nOt HeRE tO ArGUe

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sweetplantveal t1_iyazh7i wrote

It's like starting a debate over which is better, Mercedes or Porsche... Then in response to an opinion, insisting cars should be outlawed in favor of bicycles only. It's just a different, if superficially related, subject.

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Megalocerus t1_iyb4vwn wrote

I'm here from the Vegetable Defense League, you lentil gobbling kingdomist. Those legumes want to live!

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vanZuider t1_iya9ay9 wrote

>Until we figure out how to produce only female calves.

We have figured it out. We can sort sperm into X- and Y-sperm with a reliability >90%. It's actively being used in dairy production. However, the female calves are still usually slaughtered as there's no demand for an exponentially growing number of dairy cows; as far as I could gather, the benefit for a dairy production is mainly in that birthing a male calf is more dangerous for the cow.

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BaggyHairyNips t1_iya56fw wrote

Given that beef cows are butchered at ~18 months old I'm not convinced there's much of a distinction between the ethics of veal versus beef.

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[deleted] t1_iyabsc2 wrote

[deleted]

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DHerman1407 t1_iyb6rnx wrote

If you check out NFACC guidelines, atleast in North America, the “lack of space” housing such as crates has been completely phased out. All veal farms I’ve visited (Canadian) group house calves in large pens and provide both natural and artificial lighting and enrichment such a toys and brushes.

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LevelStudent t1_iya958z wrote

So shocking to me there is a while industry for veal. I don't think I've ever met anyone that had a response to veal that wasn't something along the lines of wanting to get the place that serves it shut down.

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soylamulatta t1_iyaaasf wrote

That's really interesting considering the veal, beef, and dairy industry are all pretty much the same thing. These people you've encountered that are so concerned about veal - are they vegans?

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LevelStudent t1_iyabwh9 wrote

I do know many vegans, but no, not all. The conversation never seems to reach back to the farms that produce the veal. That's besides the point though, I mostly just meant to point out how it seems like there is no one that actually wants the veal.

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