Brusion t1_j23lfbh wrote
A lot of points here, but also noone seems to be mentioning that they don't generally "expire". Most of the time the battery should, and is, out lasting the life of the vehicle.
Warpedme t1_j23untb wrote
This is simply not true. In fact it's entirely incorrect and false.
All rechargeable batteries have a certain amount of charge cycles before they absolutely have to be replaced because they either can't hold a charge as long or as much of a charge or both.
In fact there is an entire industry developing right now where batteries are first used in EVs because they demand the most cycles and intensity of power delivery. Then those batteries are recycled into home and commercial solar power storage. Eventually they will be harvested for parts and entirely recycled to be remade back into other batteries or other things
Brusion t1_j23vkgs wrote
I have 300,000 km and no degradation. Even if you have a car that has some degradation, the battery still works. You have been brainwashed. Batteries generally outlast the vehicle. You're wrong.
Also, the fact that they can use batteries after the vehicle is dead is true. This has nothing to do with the fact that the batteries outlast the vehicle.
Warpedme t1_j2417jh wrote
I literally work with a solar company that does EXACTLY what I described in repurposing EV batteries into home solar installs. You are the only brainwashed person here and you have zero idea how batteries work. All batteries have a life cycle, every last one. Batteries are also among the most reused, repurposed and recycled manufactured products in existence today.
The batteries in an EV will only outlast the vehicle if parts stop being made for that vehicle or the EV has so many issues that it costs more to repair than replace. The single most expensive part of an EV is the batteries, as long as the battery is safe and the repairs are not more expensive than replacing the vehicle, they will make the vehicle into an EV of Theseus because it's cheaper than replacing the battery. It's not uncommon to reclaim these batteries from EVs that were totaled in accidents.
Not a word of that changes the fact that ALL batteries have a limited amount of charge cycles before they need to be replaced, rebuilt or recycled. ALL BATTERIES. Every single last one. In fact every single time a battery goes through a charge cycle it holds slightly less of a charge. This is true for your Amazon rechargeable AA batteries just as much as it's true for EVs. It's simply the nature of the technology.
Brusion t1_j24s0uu wrote
Again, you're still wrong. Yes, they get repurposed after vehicle life ends, but that has nothing to do with this discussion. Batteries are not dying before vehicles rust out and head to the dump. You can downvote all you want, but it doesn't make you right
Warpedme t1_j24upt3 wrote
It's like you didn't even read what I said because it addresses exactly everything in this reply
Brusion t1_j24x39o wrote
Yep, I did. And perhaps you missed the first post of this thread. If a vehicle is totaled, then the battery lasted the lifetime of the vehicle. I understand all the simplistic points you made, but the batteries do no go through there usable life cycle in the lifetime of the vehicle. Not a single person I know has had to replace a battery in their vehicle, no have we. You addressed nothing, and are simply going off on a tangent to start an argument.
oscarcp t1_j23tzrt wrote
I highly doubt the battery can last 25 years with its full capacity. Please explain :)
TheBarMic t1_j23uws4 wrote
So it won't last with the full capacity, but after about 10 to 12 years, the average lifespan of a car, the batteries will still have about 70% capacity left. The batteries themselves are currently estimated to have a 15 to 20 lifespan, hence them "outlasting" the car. In fact, a major recycling path for these batteries once the car is retired is to be used in large scale power storage systems! Or the batteries can be recycled of their lithium and become new batteries.
permalink_save t1_j244zri wrote
Is the expectation that after 15-20 years we just junk the rest of the car? There's cars on the road now that are way older and emissions aren't great but otherwise run fine. The path to sustainability isn't just power type but not having to remanufacture cars over and over and try to make the existing ones upgradeable. Cars take a lot of resources to make that also has impact. Especially since the body usually holds up it's the engine that wears out on ICE. Can't imagine ICE beating out pure electric.
myislanduniverse t1_j24tmzn wrote
> Is the expectation that after 15-20 years we just junk the rest of the car?
Not necessarily; but a traditional internal combustion automobile is going to require replacement of some of its critical systems by this point in order to be drivable as well, and this is generally what's meant by the "service life" of a product. Of course you can extend the usable life of the vehicle by replacing worn out parts, but -- even with regular maintenance -- some of those components just aren't engineered to last that long (they can be, but you're usually sacrificing performance or efficiency for durability).
permalink_save t1_j25jzkx wrote
I mean, it's not like the timing chain belt and we throw the car away, things are generally serviceable and if it's a choice of 2k to fix it vs 20k to get a new one, not just cars but things in general, why wouldn't you just fix it? People are way too eager to get a new car when theirs starts fucking up but look at other countries driving cars with like 300k miles on them that we traded as "end of their life" at 120k. We're just being wasteful at that point.
myislanduniverse t1_j25x21c wrote
While you're entirely correct, the component you've listed is also an example of one intended to last the "life of the car." People in this thread don't mean something different when they say "life of the car" when they're taking about the battery vs the engine. You can keep both vehicles running for much longer by replacing components that have exceeded their serviceable life.
But an EV battery is intended to last the factory "life of the vehicle" in the same ways (and this could be tautological).
s0rce t1_j240f37 wrote
Down cycle into grid attached storage isn't really outlasting the car.
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