Comments
Gronx-quately89 t1_jdfa6fn wrote
You don't have to toss that old motherboard either. You can buy or 3D print a case for it and use it as a mini desktop if you want.
mkayyyy01 t1_jdfdxiw wrote
They also announced today that they are going to be selling a case for main boards. Cool stuff
G8M8N8 t1_jdg4zza wrote
Technically the second and third upgrade. The Laptop 13 launched with 11th Gen Intel, then got 12th Gen, and now 13th Gen and AMD.
bebova t1_jdid83f wrote
I went back to their site last night and I’m totally lit to see an AMD option. I’m not a gamer so a strong integrated GPU is good enough for me and will help with battery life. I almost pre-ordered it last night, but I’m going to wait a bit since they just pushed the delivery schedule back due to a delay from AMD on the new chip. 4nm thick CPU is crazy. My desktop has a R9 5900 and 3060ti. It smokes without hardly a sound. I’m really amped over framework now. Just need to make sure there’s no issue with Linux on the new CPU architecture.
LazyActivePerson t1_jdxft10 wrote
I’ve seen a few comments with people hyped about AMD.
Curious what benefit is?
I’m a light user and a cursory search seems to yield that intel and AMD seem pretty similar
bebova t1_jdxk973 wrote
They are in performance. Intel is faster on single core tasks and AMD fares better on multi-core tasks. So it depends on what you’re doing. AMD chips generally use less power which makes it easier to keep cool. AMD is often cheaper to get the same level of performance.
Either platform is fine for most people. The greatest thing AMD has accomplished is forcing Intel to be competitive. That means we get faster and more efficient systems for less money. I’ve used AMD products for years because they used to be a bit slower across the board and way cheaper than Intel. Overall, they’re both great and it’s just us nerds that have a preference. Completion brings excellence to the market!
LazyActivePerson t1_jdxtgm2 wrote
Ah, good to know. Thanks
G8M8N8 t1_jdidp2r wrote
The AMD chips are still x86, same as Intel. There shouldn’t be any issues aside from graphics drivers.
NeedsMoreGPUs t1_jdfvvw5 wrote
The fact that they weren't using MXM in the past, even just offering the OPTION, was a huge source of complaints against their design. Yes it adds complexity, but MXM has been a standard upgrade option in various workstation and gaming laptops since 2006. When Framework ignored it entirely from the start it was incredibly confusing. Also no the size of the machine does not inherently limit their ability to use MXM cards, there's both MXM-A and MXM-B size modules, and MXM-A is small enough to fit into a 14" chassis. Dell/Alienware has done it over the years, ACER did it over a decade ago on some Aspire and TravelMate machines, HP has done it on smaller EliteBook and ProBook models.
UserInside t1_jdgzftt wrote
NVIDIA kinda fucked up MXM platform a few times. I remember MSI making GPU upgradeable gaming laptop, back in Kepler era GTX7xx, and when Maxwell came out (GTX9xx), they couldn't offer upgrade for a long time because of how the new GPU architecture was heavily modifyed in terms of power delivery. Also each MXM module cost an arm and leg individually, even if you are MSI/Asus and can get them for much cheaper than a random customer. Meaning it wasn't much more expensive to just sold your last gen laptop and get the new gen one.
So I'm still waiting to see how Framework handle this, because in the past much MUCH bigger company broke their teeth on that.
I'll need a new laptop soon, so I'm looking into this and hope for the best to Framework.
TheTimeIsChow t1_jdfqbrd wrote
You just KNOW Linus had a video of this queued up and ready to go today...
Tough scene.
WonderfulEstimate176 t1_jdgv3q5 wrote
I think the AMD chips are under NDA right now so we wouldn't be able to have a video on the and laptop yet anyway.
But yeah, hopefully the NDA is lifted soon.
Anisrocks t1_jdi3qvw wrote
They posted it on Floatplane last night, he couldn't say a lot about actual specs but the features he showcased are insane
WonderfulEstimate176 t1_jdigxf4 wrote
Oh wow! Awesome!
BrooklynSwimmer t1_jdhu98y wrote
Linus is a little busy today….
(For those that missed it LTT channels were hacked, it’s all good now)
chickenlittle53 t1_jdtw3h4 wrote
Oh I was thinking of Linus Torvalds. I thought I was missing out on something more technological.
Ah well, hope that Linus is okay and all. Not my jam there really, but I know others seem to like em.
Svenskensmat t1_jdgw64z wrote
Isn’t Linus invested in this company? Seems quite obvious that he will promote it.
UserInside t1_jdgzsqs wrote
Yes he did, so any time he will talk about Framework he'll still try to be as neutral as possible. But if you really want someone 100% neutral to see review/test of those laptop from, LTT won't be the best option.
As always, it is always best to watch multiple review from different channel/media, especially when it is about a product you want to buy.
Svenskensmat t1_jdlrh7s wrote
Wasn’t really his “objectiveness” I meant but more so that it seems fairly obvious that he will use his channel to promote the brand.
TheTimeIsChow t1_jdhgvyk wrote
Of course. But this is huge news for Framework and subsequently huge news for Linus to share. Usually he get's first dibs at stuff like this from this brand.
Only problem... well the LTT stuff yesterday.
lost_james t1_jdhui6f wrote
With a punchable face
VikingBorealis t1_jdie0pw wrote
Jealousy is an ugly trait.
lost_james t1_jdij9eh wrote
Jealously for doing an idiot face? It's not hard to do so
VikingBorealis t1_jdil6pb wrote
Are you pretending you weren't being a jealous troll and thinking anyone is buying it?
lost_james t1_jdipdnt wrote
I'm not a troll, nor jealous. The guy does a punchable face in every thumbnail. He says he attracts views or something with that. But he looks like an idiot in the process.
VikingBorealis t1_jdipikb wrote
You. Ugly jealousy.
lost_james t1_jdipmf6 wrote
That's your argument... ok. Who's the troll now, then.
VikingBorealis t1_jdj1rqa wrote
Still you
lost_james t1_jdjerhm wrote
No u
VikingBorealis t1_jdjh3wu wrote
Sheesh.
Read the room and down votes kid.
lost_james t1_jdjh5a4 wrote
S
nipsen t1_jdekv15 wrote
Oh, good. Finally usb is fast enough to not have to worry about internal motherboard contacts. Now we can actually just have a small enclosure and plug an external card into any laptop-sleeve with usb! Perfect!
But wait, dear nerds, hearken to this! - A company will now allow you to buy a specially fitted module, for absurd amounts of money, that you can /slot into the back of only a single type of laptop/ via USB4! Not bad, eh!!! Eh!!!
(Also, here's some flak about mxm egpu solutions, because it's not Mac enough)
Seriously, though - the keyboard modules are fantastic. That'd save me a day of pulling fused plastic pips off the plate on the back of the motherboard on a laptop, to get another keyboard replacement in. Why not sell the laptop on that? "No need to replace your entire laptop if the spacebar breaks".
[deleted] t1_jdeon3h wrote
USB is not nearly as fast enough to carry a modern GPU.
dryingsocks t1_jdewgvj wrote
USB4 is Thunderbolt which carries PCIe?
[deleted] t1_jdexhp4 wrote
Yeah but it's still not quite there speed-wise. The bottleneck is still there.
dryingsocks t1_jdeyicc wrote
surely it's plenty for most people, especially in a laptop
QuietGanache t1_jdf3f1y wrote
Thunderbolt tops out at 40Gb/s, PCIe gen 4 x16 tops out at 32GB/s. This means that things like textures and new geometries will load much more slowly so while it might be fine for CAD, you'll encounter issues with gaming, especially with modern engines that use much more refined levels of detail.
sFXplayer t1_jdgdraa wrote
Last I checked GPUs don't saturate a gen 4 x16 link when gaming, unless the game implements direct storage which as of now isn't that many.
G1ntok1_Sakata t1_jdgoorq wrote
Thing is that 40Gbps is only 1.25x the bandwidth of x8 PCIe gen2 speeds. Accounting for USB overheard I wouldn't be surprised if it was equal or just barely above x8 PCIe gen2 bandwidth. Remember on release of the RX6500 it got flack for being x4 only as it got a huge perf hit on x4 PCIe gen3? Note that x4 PCIe gen3 happens to be about the same bandwidth as x8 PCIe gen2. 40Gbps is pretty tiny, esp if there is overhead to deal with.
celaconacr t1_jdfioj0 wrote
Razer Core X and similar eGPUs seem to do ok. I have seen a RTX 3080 rated at about 20% slower than on a desktop. Slightly better if you don't have to return the graphics output back down the thunderbolt connection. A large amount of memory on the cards can certainly help with the bandwidth. I can't really see it being an issue for most graphics cards when heat will stop them first in a laptop.
Svenskensmat t1_jdgwklj wrote
A desktop RTX 380 maxes out at around 16GB/s in bandwidth utilisation over PCIe. 32Gb/s is the equivalent of 4GB/s in bandwidth, so it’s not nearly enough.
celaconacr t1_jdhs888 wrote
It doesn't particularly matter what it maxes out at if the utilisation over time is much lower. e.g. a spike loading a new texture set would potentially have to wait 4 cycles rather than 1 but if there isn't another texture set waiting to be loaded after it's a small hit on performance.
The main bottlenecks for modern graphics cards aren't usually the PCIe lanes. As I put performance tests show it's about a 20% hit on a desktop class card with current games. Before eGPUs existed similar tests were done with GPUs running on 4 and 8 lanes with similar results. The result will vary by game, texture volume and the cards memory. The more memory the card has the less it will use PCIe.
For the future Thunderbolt 5 will be 80Gb/s uni-directional or upto 120 bi-directional so it will be even less of an issue. PCIe 5 will be a similar increase but again is likely low utilisation over time.
Sol33t303 t1_jdgy4ue wrote
>Thunderbolt tops out at 40Gb/s, PCIe gen 4 x16 tops out at 32GB/s
Last I knew GPUs don't use nearly that much PCIe bandwidth if your not SLI-ing or something.
It has it available, but doesn't use it.
Could become more relevant as directstorage becomes a thing though.
QuietGanache t1_jdh4eez wrote
That's reasonable, I hadn't considered where the textures and geometries are coming from.
Iintl t1_jdgxcvz wrote
It's not. TB3 enclosures have been known to offer significantly worse performance than plugging it in directly into a desktop, and the performance difference only increases as GPUs get more and more powerful (and demand greater bandwidth). Off the top of my head, a moderately powerful GPU like the RTX3080 could see anywhere from 20% to 50% performance drop when put into an eGPU enclosure.
Sol33t303 t1_jdgyc8x wrote
How does that compare to laptop dGPUs though? Which are already neutered performance-wise for heat and power consumption reasons. Both of which also get worse as you scale up to more powerful GPUs just as happens with PCIe bandwidth.
Purple_Form_8093 t1_jdhto8y wrote
4x link falls flat for most midrange and up graphics cards. Thunderbolt/usb4 is really cool. Just not really for egpu. It works. Technically. But it has its own issues.
plutoniaex t1_jdf1eic wrote
Why not just expose the PCIe as an external port then?
Sol33t303 t1_jdgz6uf wrote
Theres nothing that's fundementally stopping a manufacturer from doing that.
But it's designed as an internal connector:
-Full 16x slots are big. Bigger then any external connectors that I can think of off the top of my head, or 8x.
- your going to get an unpleasant surprise when you try to disconnect something while running without compatible hardware and without jumping through the hoops you gotta do on the software side to shutdown the power to a pcie device (and not accidentally power down something like your internal sata or USB controller). Same goes for connecting something.
- the devices are also in general going to be designed for internal use (exposed fans, exposed PCBs that you could shock with ESD, etc.).
- You can't expect users to know that e.g. plugging in a PCIe device might rerout pcie lanes from say your NVME controller to the new device and that will make buyers *very* unhappy and support tickets will go through the roof, your don't expect your VGA connector to stop working because you have used all your USB slots for example because to an inexperienced that's what it would look like.
- And i'm sure there's a lot more reasons I could think of that an external pcie connector is a terrible idea.
[deleted] t1_jdfvki8 wrote
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[deleted] t1_jdexa56 wrote
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ChrisFromIT t1_jdf0wnu wrote
Nope. USB4's bandwidth in symmetric mode is 80 Gbps. While PCIe 4.0 x16 is 32 GBps. The difference is big B, bytes vs little b, bits. USB4 is 80 Gbits per second or 10 GBytes per second. While PCIe 4.0 x16 is 32 GBytes per second.
USB4's bandwidth would be the equivalent of PCIe 2.0 x16 or PCIe 3.0 x8. Just slightly higher bandwidth that that.
djk29a_ t1_jdfm1ro wrote
Oculink seems to do better than Thunderbolt for reasons that are unclear in my zero research so far
Tobacco_Bhaji t1_jdes464 wrote
It's more than fast enough for what you'd legit expect to do on a laptop like this, though.
[deleted] t1_jdf3ne8 wrote
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ChrisFromIT t1_jdf0bhu wrote
USB4 2.0 almost has enough bandwidth to carry a modern GPU. It would have a bit more bandwidth than a PCIe 3.0 x8 slot or a bit more bandwidth than a PCIe 2.0 x16 slot. And with the 4090 desktop, you lose about 6% performance if you use a PCIe 2.0 x16 slot vs. a PCIe 4.0 x16 slot.
nipsen t1_jdewl7i wrote
..Without going into a huge rant here about why pci-e exists, and how absurdly obsolete it is - usb4 has 80Gbps transfer rates (same as pci-ex16, in ..theory).
QuietGanache t1_jdf3ixa wrote
I think you're mixing and matching your bits and bytes.
JaggedMetalOs t1_jdfob8p wrote
> Why not sell the laptop on that?
They already did that when they first launched as the "modular, repairable laptop". I don't think it's a bad thing they're branching out into areas like performance/gaming.
Pineappl3z t1_jdglq3m wrote
They're using PCIe x8 for the expansion bay on the Framework 16; not, USB4. Here's the github for the electrical design for the Expansion Bay. The theoretical maximum power available to the expansion card in this early design is 210W with supplemental wall power.
[deleted] t1_jdglqo4 wrote
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DriftingMemes t1_jdfwzqi wrote
>Seriously, though - the keyboard modules are fantastic. That'd save me a day of pulling fused plastic pips off the plate on the back of the motherboard on a laptop, to get another keyboard replacement in. Why not sell the laptop on that? "No need to replace your entire laptop if the spacebar breaks".
What brand are you working on? Maybe I'm spoiled, but all mine are on a tray, you just pop the tray, replace the tray.
financialmisconduct t1_jdhyqhb wrote
ThinkPad: pull three screws, open the laptop, slide keyboard up 8mm, lift
nipsen t1_jdi1dom wrote
The rest of us have keyboard modules that are fused to the chassis, I'm afraid. So to replace a very flimsy plastic part, it's necessary to replace the whole front cover, or to dig through the whole laptop, and pop it off the fused plastic contacts.
financialmisconduct t1_jdi1k4f wrote
None of my various laptops have that
Is it cheap consumer grade shit?
nipsen t1_jdi8t1x wrote
Yes and no, so to speak. My dearly bought Thinkbook has it. Any Asus of any price-range. Most HPs made in recent years. Literally anything in a slim form-factor will have this solution with the keyboard being plastic-welded to the top chassis.
Ironically, a lot of the actual consumer-grade shit, like Lenovo Yoga, etc., inherited their design from the old elephant euthanasia brick devices, and have detachable keyboard modules. But it is actually glued and fused to what is doubling as the back panel for the mainboard. Which is also the solution on many of the older IBM-ish Lenovos. The keyboard module itself is not difficult to produce or replace on these devices, and is just attached with a standard ribbon cable. But to actually replace it requires some form of OEM-specific voodoo.
I am told by entirely reliable industry insiders that this is not done to make sure the laptops must be specified to different regions, to maintain these artificial region-offices of these companies, at all. Or that it is one of the few remaining things that can be glued to the laptop, so that when it breaks, the whole thing has to be replaced - meaning that it is a great way to make sure random consumers also buy warranty "deals". I'm told none of these things are involved, at all.
yelahneb t1_jdey8ts wrote
This is pretty cool, but tech companies have no monetary incentive to keep providing compatible upgrades to a single machine. They need us to buy new laptops every 2 or 3 years to maintain their profit margins.
JimNixon t1_jdf1dro wrote
They've already released a 12th gen motherboard for the Framework 13 inch version to allow owners to upgrade from 11th gen.
yelahneb t1_jdf1ufw wrote
Is the cost of the laptop + the 11 gen motherboard + the 12 gen greater or lesser than the cost of a comparable laptop matching the specs of the 12 gen
Customfreak567 t1_jdf5oqg wrote
The whole point is to reduce e-waste. The laptops should hopefully keep getting upgrades. That way if you want a new cpu you get a new main board and cpu and not a whole new chassis. Old one can be sent back
innkeeper_77 t1_jdfpgqq wrote
It’s cheaper than buying two whole laptops… and the 11th gen original motherboard can theoretically still be used as a low power desktop or something.
JimNixon t1_jdhns79 wrote
Not just theoretically, Framework released the 3D printable files to make a case to use the 11th gen motherboard as a standalone desktop PC.
​
innkeeper_77 t1_jdhouje wrote
Oh certainly- but there are important components that would need to be purchased as they are needed for the laptop if you are upgrading- ram, storage, etc.
Old laptop motherboards certainly make more sense to use for small home servers than purpose built hardware though! This would theoretically make a strong reselling market for old framework components, and reduce demand for brand new hardware.
DriftingMemes t1_jdfxwvw wrote
Or, since nobody really needs a low power desktop, it can be shipped to Africa for an impoverished child to strip the gold plating from.
This is a solution that's been tried many times, it never works, but each time evangelists pop up to explain why this time it will definitely work!
innkeeper_77 t1_jdfykib wrote
The bigger benefit is making them easily repairable. This HAS been done, older thinkpads stayed in service way way longer than most of their comparable laptops simply because they were so serviceable.
One thing the framework does right is their charger setup- you are likely to break and wear out the charging port on a modern laptop- and when that happens on a framework you simply swap out the module and keep going. This is a much bigger deal than replaceable / upgradable motherboards, but keeping it all compatible makes parts easier to source for those repairing, not upgrading. (I’ve seen plenty of laptops discarded for a bad charging port, making it repairable without even opening up the laptop is AMAZING. I no longer have a modern thinkpad because they went to a delicate usb-c directly soldered to the motherboard instead of the old wired in charging port that you could repair by unplugging the broken one)
Iintl t1_jdgxi9s wrote
They're still doing miles better than a typical laptop company. If you bought a HP or Dell or Apple and you wanted an upgrade, your only options are to sell it second hand or throw it away. Framework provides a third option of repurposing the mainboard, should you wish to so, plus it creates less e-waste because the screen, keyboard, battery, chassis etc. don't have to be replaced if they're working fine
Indolent_Bard t1_jds3m55 wrote
The draw has always been that if any component breaks, you can just replace it. Most laptops make you replace the whole screen assembly if the screen breaks. Here you can just buy the screen, or the fan and heatsink, or the hinge, or literally any component that breaks. And the whole thing can be disassembled by the screwdriver they package with it, no glued parts to pry apart. They aren't doing it to get rich, they're doing it to make a revolution. Oh yeah, and you can upgrade the CPU too.
DueAnalysis2 t1_jdfqrfu wrote
I mean, the cost_original_item+cost_upgrade_module is always going to be greater than the cost_new_item right?
yelahneb t1_jdfq2lk wrote
Please don't mistake me for a hater. Don't know if this helps or hurts, but I have about 10,000 3.5" floppy disks and was born before we landed on the Moon
[deleted] t1_jdrka3u wrote
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ThePhysicsOfBaseball t1_jdg1fd7 wrote
Eh by this cynical logic there'd be no companies selling hardwood furniture that lasts decades, or DE razors that you buy once and never replace, or Moka Pots whose only maintenance is a cheap rubber seal.
And yet all those things exist.
Are they niche? Maybe. But--and I know this is blasphemy to say in the tech industry--not every business needs to be a monopolizing decacorn.
yelahneb t1_jdisgbs wrote
I hear you. It's a balance, though - there are washing machines built 100 years ago that still work exactly as designed, but you gotta turn a crank.
ThePhysicsOfBaseball t1_jdkd4zb wrote
I genuinely don't understand the point you're making. I thought we were talking about framework's business model.
AnAverageBengali007 t1_jdfvubq wrote
Once you start working with electrons in the GigaHertz lane, you have more problems in your hand than just speed.
You have to think about signal timing, tracing lengths, parasitic capacitances, noise getting inducted into open terminals, signal integrity, de-phased signals due to a misaligned connection, different clocks due to even one bad transistor in the capacitor, and more and more we can go on about.
Like I am excited about this laptop, and I will buy one once my old and trusty legion 5 gives out. But I will hold back my expectations. I also once thought that "why can't they just do x? Just add y." but once you get into the intricacies of these magic rocks that even graduate engineers have no idea about, you start to be more conservative.
I also stopped complaining about bugs in apps and games once I got to experience my own deployment. It's easy to blame others when you are ignorant, bit things get different once you know what is happening.
LSeww t1_jdgbyag wrote
I'm not sure what you're talking about. All high frequency stuff lives on separate boards, and all connections are low frequency.
DriftingMemes t1_jdfxijn wrote
I'm with you. Toss this on the pile of all the other "upgradable" laptops that got one video card and then nada...
Atillion t1_jdg26b7 wrote
Mmmhm.. I've been tricked by the Grail shaped beacon once before..
R3DEMPTEDlegacy t1_jdgdx8e wrote
I'm so pumped , all I need now is an eventual touch screen panel
ncc74656m t1_jdhdnk5 wrote
This is what I've been waiting for.
Well, honestly I'm waiting for a 15" because 16 is a bit too big, but I'll consider it if they have a killer screen and audio option, because I'm tired of stagnant computers, graphics, and terrible audio out of Windows laptops.
grafknives t1_jdgt2en wrote
Those "spacers" on the keyboard/touchpad space are AWFUL.
And are a bad idea! It means there too many clippers, moving parts, the space under keyboard is not optimised AT ALL.
Caroliano t1_jdiea5p wrote
All I see is the potential of an ortholinear keyboard in a notebook. I agree they are kinda ugly, but I'm more a function over form type of guy.
grafknives t1_jdik4iw wrote
Ok, that would be something, but current spacers system won't allow that - you need whole new top cover
[deleted] t1_jdebb5c wrote
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TheLastCrankers t1_jdh4g25 wrote
I know what I’m gonna replace my desktop with if this actually goes through.
Indolent_Bard t1_jds80dy wrote
They already have a pretty good track record with the 13-in version, I have faith.
[deleted] t1_jdi7s2t wrote
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GoTeamScotch t1_jdikfqs wrote
So the big deal is that you can upgrade the graphics on the laptop, right?
How is this different from laptops in the past with upgradeable graphics exactly? I can see some benefit (different cooling designs over time), but that being said, laptop manufacturers have done upgradeable graphics in the past. My gaming laptop from 2010 had an MXM slot and I upgraded from a 512mb card to a 1gb card...
Indolent_Bard t1_jds8h9s wrote
The difference is you can completely disassemble this laptop with nothing but a single screwdriver, everything can be replaced from the screen to the CPU (unfortunately you have to replace the whole main board, you can't just buy a new CPU unfortunately, stupid Intel and AMD won't let them I guess) to the heatsink and fan. Busted hinge? You can replace it. Need to clean it? Disassemble it and dust it and then put it back together. Easiest laptop to repaste, never go to repair shop ever again. Keep one laptop for the rest of your life, and upgrade it when you need to.
[deleted] t1_jdrzkpq wrote
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Autumn--Nights t1_jdpye25 wrote
This looks incredible, my only complaint is the removal of the 3.5mm jack. Charging + that means that this thing functionally only has 4 ports, not 6.
Indolent_Bard t1_jds8laz wrote
Yeah, but at least you can replace those ports easily. Better than the original framework only having essentially three ports.
EnigmaticGentleman t1_je8wx5q wrote
I love what Framework is doing, I just wish I could buy a black laptop from them instead of a silver one - honestly the only reason I haven't dropped 2K+ on their laptop.
[deleted] t1_jdghm34 wrote
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wierd_husky t1_jdgmb3w wrote
Framework has been out for a while, they’re fairly niche but very respected, they make good products and have actually held up their beliefs about repairability, they’ve already released a MOBO upgrade for example.
Flipdip35 t1_jdgk4hg wrote
Framework already has product out though, and it’s a good laptop, plus you can change ports and upgrade or replace basically any part of it.
Indolent_Bard t1_jds7ssu wrote
How? They literally have nothing in common. One is a modular laptop and one is a phone with artificial hype (nobody was talking about it before the tech channels.) Plus this is their 3rd year of existence, or at least their 3rd version.
kardiogramm t1_jdf4vrx wrote
I was really hoping they would refine their design for a larger laptop but they doubled down on the previous aesthetics.
Really all I want is a repairable and a user upgradable take on a minimalist laptop , why is this so hard?
ThePhysicsOfBaseball t1_jdf8fus wrote
How is the original 13 and the new 16 not minimalist?
Seriously, at some point you're just complaining to complain.
Modullah t1_jdfcgth wrote
The MacBook Air is minimalist. To be fair, for a modular laptop their design is fairly minimal but I think they are a few iterations away from MacBook level minimalism. Great work though, I hope they keep doing well.
kardiogramm t1_jdfhurp wrote
It’s not minimalist, so many unnecessary aspects to the design, the odd taper and curve that make it look like any laptop. The thing I love most about it is the top lid (not the hinge) of the screen, that is minimalist, if only that carried on throughout the rest of the casing.
A MacBook Pro or a Google Chromebook Pixel from 2015 is minimalist.
I think they have dumbed it down too much with the focus ease of upgradability. Personally I could just do with a minimalist design with built in (but user replaceable/repairable) ports and insides (with upgradability in mind) along with a screen (with windows hello camera) that can be replaced. Have a magnetic power charger similar to MagSafe or use a USB 4.0 port for charging too. USB 4.0 with a digital line in/headphone jack (again replaceable from the inside without it being a module) and have a nicely designed flush take on an ExpressCard type slot for the other side to slot in other optional ports.
6SixTy t1_jdfltb2 wrote
Taper is there to help the speakers project themselves. MBA has speakers projecting through the hinge, and the speaker cavity is much smaller.
User replaceable stuff doesn't help at all with user upgradability. You can't do wacky stuff like add in storage or DP on a cartridge without fundamentally altering the chassis holes. Or even fabricate your own modules like magsafe.
kardiogramm t1_jdfost3 wrote
Ok I understand they were going for everything but the kitchen sink but why would you need storage modules when the SSD is upgradable? USB-C style ports seem to be staying around for a long time as USB 4.0 v2 will be using the same connector.
I would want a permanent MagSafe style charging port on there, not a module. I feel like they are trying to create something around these modules but they are really just USB-C dongles that fit into the case. They could still do these things if they had one or even two ExpressCard* style slot/s in there, there is no need to go full on Michael Bay with this design. People just want a repairable and upgradable device.
*I mean it as a descriptor but their own take on it with modern speeds and design.
ThePhysicsOfBaseball t1_jdfzoo3 wrote
>I would want a permanent MagSafe style charging port on there, not a module. I feel like they are trying to create something around these modules but they are really just USB-C dongles that fit into the case.
Everyone who says that doesn't own a framework, and everyone who gets one realizes they were wrong.
kardiogramm t1_jdg8a9u wrote
Ah I forgot this is a complete paradigm shift that 23 years of owning a variety of laptops has not prepared me for.
voodoovan t1_jdfq46t wrote
I agree. It can be done, its not that technically difficult. But the single reason no one is doing it, is, money.
kardiogramm t1_jdftjh9 wrote
Oh of course, I lament that Apple decided to go the direction they did. I was perfectly happy upgrading the SSD on my older model MBP. I gave their Touchbar MBP a go but it broke quite a few times and I resented the fixed drive capacity, so much so I have switched back to a desktop PC running Windows. I am looking at an eventual replacement laptop but nothing has really caught my interest and expectations on the PC side.
I really like what FrameWork are trying to do. I think the brand identity is quite nice just think the execution is lacking in the industrial design IMO but the potential is certainly there. I might be critical but I am definitely rooting for them because if they succeed it could force competitors to adjust their approach and we all win then.
6SixTy t1_jdim3ds wrote
Well, for starters, magsafe is patented (making any 'official' copy hard to pull off) but 3rd party Chinese foils of magsafe are out there and I actually agree with the point that the SSD cart is kind of pointless.
*And making a homebrew standard doesn't really fly, especially for a startup like Framework. Thunderbolt already shares the same connector type as USB-C, and exposes traditionally internal PCIe lanes to the outside. Only scenario where Framework can actually make their own standard is if they genuinely reinvent a solution that had previously failed before like their just announced GPU connector that probably just made MXM look completely geriatric and obsolete overnight.
kardiogramm t1_jdimvc3 wrote
Didn’t stop Microsoft, didn’t stop Razer
6SixTy t1_jdirika wrote
Microsoft actually owns another whole patent on a magnetically actuated locking connector, which is a plausible explanation for how their connector works, and Razer sounds like it doesn't even magnetically couple at all.
Indolent_Bard t1_jds517o wrote
On one hand I agree with you because you basically have only three ports left while plugged in, but the other hand you can actually replace the charging port. I can't think of a single laptop where you can do that. I don't know if they even have the legal rights to do a mag safe type charger, only Apple and Microsoft branded laptop seem to have that feature for some reason. But of course, the community has been trying to make one for a while.
The storage modules make sense because there's only one SSD port. Yeah, I wish that they had two as well. If nothing else, It makes a decent backup drive for all your files and stuff. I don't know how to do this on Windows, but on Linux it seems that by default USB drives aren't mounted until you try to actually use them, meaning that you don't have to worry about a ransomware attack locking you out of your backup files just because it's plugged in.
Now that the 16-in version exists and has six ports instead of four, as well as the option of sticking in a graphics card if you want it, I'm pretty happy with what they have now. A laptop that can be entirely disassembled with a single screwdriver that they package with it, where every component can be replaced from the charging port to the hinges to the heat sink and fan. You could keep this thing running for as long as you live, which in my opinion makes it the best laptop ever.
[deleted] t1_jdfkzg7 wrote
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bebova t1_jdev2x5 wrote
They also delivered the first mainboard upgrade for their original laptop. It’s on my list when I retire my desktop this year. I’m glad to see them making headway and love their GPU module idea. I’ll be fine with Iris Xe and more battery life, but this is cool for those that need it.