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Jv1856 t1_it9jzjn wrote

Reply to comment by Ok-disaster2022 in 8K Industry Faces Challenge with New EU Regulatory Ruling by SalmonellaTizz

Yes they should, bc this shit isn’t the problem. The problem is places like my old company that are using 40yo electric motors at 37% more draw than a contemporary motor. It works, so they’ll run it in to the ground. The power that place uses is 200x more than the rest of the town combined. Now think about the fact that there are 11 other manufacturing sites in that town, most (if not all) of which are at least as dated. And they all get a lower rate per kWh than residents. The municipality is just as bad too.

But yeah, focus on the consumers….

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skinlo t1_itlca6n wrote

And what would be the energy cost of replacing that motor?

In car terms, it is almost always better to run your inefficient car for years until it is falling apart than buy a shiny new Tesla, because of the cost of resource extraction and manufacturing.

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danielv123 t1_it9sh6t wrote

Why not both?

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Jv1856 t1_it9xdqe wrote

  1. because it never happens, it’s always targeted at everything BUT Corporations.

  2. if corporations were doing their part, the rest wouldn’t even be needed. This is global, so needs to include China. But the energy consumption of the worlds corporations was collectively reduced even 15%, it would vastly surpass the world’s loftiest goals to reverse climate change.

Same thing with income tax(American): up to 1913, America was funded almost entirely from corporate taxes. In the 40s, it reached another level. Now today it’s almost the inverse, funded mostly by citizens. If corporations were taxed at the pre-war levels, they could fully fund the current post-secondary tuition bill, nationalized healthcare, and enough left over to start paying down the national debt, all with $0 income tax to the individual citizen.

Further, we no longer incentivize investment back into the company as a tax write-off like it was even a decade ago. This is to encourage stock buyback and consolidation, putting more money into billionaires pockets from the hands of the middle class.

  1. China. Full stop. They don’t give a shit and account for something egregious like 88% of all pollution and energy inefficiencies. Nothing is sacred over their except for power, control, and ¥¥¥.

Individuals should fight tooth and nail to resist this to put the onus back where it belongs.

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soldiernerd t1_itahwh4 wrote

That's because there was no personal income tax until 1913.

In 2021, US Government revenue was 2.04T from personal income tax (50.7%), 1.31T from payroll taxes (32.6%), and 372B (9.2%) from corporate income tax.

50% of payroll taxes (16.3% of federal revenue) are paid by corporations, which means money directly from corporations makes up 25.5% of federal revenue. The other half (another 16.3% of federal revenue) is from employee-paid payroll taxes, which is just money handed from the employer to the employee to the government, so essentially 41.8% of federal revenue comes directly from the employer.

Looking at IRS data from 2018 and 2019 it appears that salaries and wage makes up about 2/3 of reported personal income.

Now that doesn't mean it is the source for 2/3 of the tax revenue of course, as deductions and credits alter that. Notwithstanding, if tax revenue from wages and salaries makes up only 16% of total personal income tax revenue, that would mean 50.0% of federal revenue is derived, directly or indirectly from a company.

The reality is that personal income tax on wage and salaries probably far exceeds 16% of all personal income tax revenue, meaning businesses are likely responsible for well over 50% of federal revenue.

That's without taking into account any other federal revenue streams from companies such as excise duties and customs taxes.

So companies are still a very very large driver of Federal revenue.

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Jv1856 t1_itaily6 wrote

Payroll tax is not the same as income tax. Crediting corporations for employee-paid portions of payroll tax seems disingenuous to me

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soldiernerd t1_itajfig wrote

I didn't say it was the same as income tax.

Why is it disingenuous? Where do you think the money is coming from?

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Jv1856 t1_itajwia wrote

We don’t say that retailers pay 6% of tax on sales. They COLLECT the tax from the purchaser on behalf of the state. It’s the same with an employee’s share of payroll tax. That is money that theoretically would otherwise go to the employee, but the company collects on behalf of the government.

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soldiernerd t1_itakabq wrote

Sure but the difference is sales tax is money coming from the consumer, with no tie to the collecting company.

Payroll tax is money the company hands to the employee, who immediately hands it to the government. It's money which was created by the company and which the government receives as a direct result of the company's economic activity.

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danielv123 t1_itbb5ek wrote

Sales tax is avoidable. You can simply not buy anything and put it all in a bank account, so I agree that its something the consumer pays.

You cannot receive income without paying income tax. For that reason you might as well consider the tax part of the payout. Your income is paid by someone, and they are effectively paying your income tax as well.

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