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chrisdh79 OP t1_ivfd3a0 wrote

From the article: The NightWare system uses “the Apple Watch heart rate sensor, accelerometer, and gyroscope to detect a nightmare and then disrupt it through haptic feedback, generating gentle pulses on the wrist that gradually increase until the user is roused from the nightmare, but not from sleep,” Apple says. It’s also the only FDA-approved digital therapeutic for treating nightmares.

NightWare has already been prescribed to 400 patients in the United States, according to Apple. Almost all of the patients are active-duty military or veterans.

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Tyrilean t1_ivir9ku wrote

I wonder why an app requires a prescription. I can’t see a downside to letting anyone have this. Veterans aren’t the only ones with nightmares.

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_softlite t1_iviyrqv wrote

It's not just an app, it's a watch and phone with software pre-installed, and the bundle is designated as a Class II Medical Device by the FDA. I can only assume there's a lot more money in medical devices than IAPs, at least in the US, and to maintain their class they have to require a prescription.

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Tyrilean t1_ivki7rz wrote

I get that, but it’s not a special medical phone and watch. It’s an iPhone and an Apple Watch. Which I’m currently holding/wearing. The app is the special sauce, and that’s what’s being withheld.

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_softlite t1_ivm9x7v wrote

I didn’t mean to make it sound like the hardware was specialized, only that it’s not a prescription for software but rather an entire “medical device.” Existing as a physical object is probably a requirement for their product to qualify as a “Class II medical device,” which then allows them to sell the package for an insanely high price—even if the physical component is just off-the-shelf tech. And while I can see how you might think this is them “withholding” the product, in the sense that it’s not freely available, it isn’t completely inaccessible—at least, not for the people who need it.

A less cynical reason for their strategy might be that the project received funding specifically for the development of a breakthrough medical device. That funding may have included limitations on what they could do with the result of that development, including limitations that prevent them from either selling it directly to the public or from commercial profit (I.e., profit from a source of payment that doesn’t qualify as a medical expense).

There are a lot of medical devices/other types of objects that require a prescription for no particular reason. My doctor once prescribed me a sandal, which was in every way the same as something I could have bought for $5 except it was a medical-ish pale green and 20x the price.

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3d_extra t1_ivo8f4k wrote

I think it is way simpler than that. They can't have doctors systematically recommend to buy apple watches because there is some app on there. If it is FDA approved then it might become possible to have it as a reimbursable for vets. Apple probably saw that there are a lot of vets without Apple watches and an unmet need. More sales for Apple and perhaps some benefits for vets.

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M365Certified t1_iwmdafq wrote

Its the reimbursable part.

The VA will pay for a Medical Device. If its just an App, then the VA will pay for just the App and the Vet is stuck buying an App, which even a $250 SE watch can be a lot for a Vet struggling with employment due to PTSD.

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Jorycle t1_ivjbsu6 wrote

True, but that's still basically just an app, since they're not adding anything new to either the phone or the watch. Seems like a weird money making scheme to me - and money for Apple, since they can petition for even more goofy "Apple watch saved my friend's dog's uncle" ads/articles.

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Kako0404 t1_ivjyeul wrote

So yes on one hand being FDA approved means they can charge more for the subscription. On the other hand it opens the door for insurance coverage for users.

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DoneisDone45 t1_ivj2vmq wrote

this application is so obvious that i cant believe they never made a device like it before.

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mishap1 t1_ivffhci wrote

So you just have to get a second watch to monitor you at night while you're primary is charging.

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Not_as_witty_as_u t1_ivfmp30 wrote

Not that you would, but a $300 solution to PTSD from war zones is pretty good value even if you had to do that, no? Can you just not help yourself from being cynical?

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Modsda3 t1_ivgg1na wrote

For real. I've had cptsd from combat for 10 years now. Woke up disoriented and completely drenched in sweat and absolutely drained just last night. This tech could be a game changer for me.

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deepseadinko t1_ivim946 wrote

If you do succeed in getting this I would love to hear a follow-up sometime down the road.

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mishap1 t1_ivfo1v8 wrote

If it works, it's a dirt cheap solution. Not criticizing the innovation. The commentary is on Apple's lack of focus on increasing battery life on these. I've gone to the Ultra as my 4th iteration but I could routinely run my last gen to reserve power in the course of a day and anything but near religious charging discipline means a dead watch.

Few things are more frustrating than having a watch crap out mid-day because you forgot to charge. Other brands have watches that last longer and have the same sensors so I don't exactly see where this is an Apple unique feature. It's just a bit of PR fluff unless there's a patent on it here. I say this as a very long time AAPL shareholder.

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Not_as_witty_as_u t1_ivfrhly wrote

>Apple's lack of focus on increasing battery life on these

Yeah because surely they're not trying to improve that...

I don't know what to tell you but I sleep with mine on and charge while showering/getting ready for the day and I'm good.

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Mg2836 t1_ivha1sv wrote

I mean whats the competition….

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mishap1 t1_ivfuaeq wrote

They reached a good enough point of 18 hours and spent any other gains in cutting costs. Same with their phones.

I get the expectation that people are always near chargers and I always carry a charger. That said, my 6 would be deep into reserve power before I get back to a charger probably once a week especially if I did any exercise in the day. It'd never last to the morning if I ever wore it without a solid charge.

Perhaps I am just too much of a power user or I don't sleep enough but the margin of error on the base watches doesn't seem sufficient for medical use.

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Tball2 t1_ivijt2y wrote

Then why did you buy 4 iterations. Buy one of the alternatives if they have the same sensors and have the battery life you crave so badly

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therealpigman t1_ivfilz4 wrote

Charging while I shower each day is usually enough to last day and night

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thoughts_and_prayers t1_ivfho8f wrote

I always keep my Apple Watch on during the night. Typically just need to charge it while I’m getting ready for the day and sleep and I’m usually all charged up.

The fast charging functionality that they added a couple releases ago solved most of the charging issues.

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evilohm t1_ivfn52o wrote

you can charge it an hour before bedtime or while you're idle sometime in the day.

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jordanundead t1_ivft3u6 wrote

I have my bedtime set so it tells me exactly when I need to charge to have 100% battery by bedtime.

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killer_by_design t1_ivhb0rz wrote

I can't even begin to describe to you how wide ranging and difficult living with PTSD is.

Please delete your comment. I know it's an off hand glib "haha apple dumb" kind of comment but the idea that for $300 my partner could avoid a PTSD episode is money I would spend a hundred times over.

Please consider deleting your comment.

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tooold4urcrap t1_ivghnki wrote

My watch never needs to be charged at night tho so I’m not sure what you’re asking.

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TheDyingAdventure t1_ivi2hjr wrote

Sometimes I charge mine while I brush my teeth and wash my face. It charges to 100 percent battery pretty fast.

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Shepard_P t1_iviqglq wrote

You must have not used a new one. They charge super fast.

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rdicky58 t1_ivi7o7y wrote

Not necessarily, I use sleep monitoring on mine and I just have to remember to throw it on the charger a couple hours before bedtime. If I forget it’ll still track through the night, I’ll just have to charge it the next morning. Still lasts me the whole day.

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Tyrilean t1_ivir6mc wrote

I wear my watch at night. Toss it on the charger in the morning while I do my morning routine, and it’s topped up by then.

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SatanLifeProTips t1_ivgsgnf wrote

For all the ahole downvotes, the guy isn’t wrong. Apple needs to get off it’s ass and improve the battery life drastically.

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PiXLANIMATIONS t1_ivh6ifo wrote

It’s basically an iPhone which monitors more than your iPhone does passively, and most of them have Always On Displays. The fact that such a tiny, complicated device lasts as long as it does is a testament to Apple’s design and hardware team.

All it takes is about half an hour on charge and it’ll last me 24/30 hours. That means I can wear it to bed, to work and for the rest of the day, whack it on to charge while I do my night routine and stick it back on before bed, rinse and repeat

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mzchen t1_ivi9kvo wrote

Because it's irrelevant to the article. Also, having to recharge a small device after it spends 8 hours monitoring your body so that you can use it for daily necessities isn't... that bad?

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