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Thomas_JCG t1_je3g414 wrote

The BoS lore is all over the place because they are used for whatever is more convenient to the story.

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Adepts_Lawyer t1_je62tr7 wrote

In their defense the brotherhood is a very large faction that spread throughout the entire country with the east and west having very different motives and opinions. This is also mostly because of Elder Maxon who took control and is extremely genocidal.

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Alternative-Cup-8102 t1_je4sbj5 wrote

I mean yeah isn’t that what every faction is used for they are twisted to tel a story

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a_left_out_tomato t1_je5v0tv wrote

True. But also I will say that the Brotherhood changes depending on their leadership, which changes a lot. Maxson's BOS even had different ranks than Lyons's BOS.

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No_Athlete_5155 t1_je52n21 wrote

The book that inspired them, is a pretty good read.

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Dryandrough t1_je535ym wrote

Name?

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mkul316 t1_je556ya wrote

"The Book That Inspired Fallout's Brotherhood of Steel"

By: Guy Hu Wrotitt

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Dryandrough t1_je55e7b wrote

Oh, thought you meant an actual book.

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garyrommel t1_je5q3x2 wrote

Canticle for Leibowitz is the book that inspired the Brotherhood of Steel faction.

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Raystafarian t1_je3fmrn wrote

I mean.. At the core of the original ideology, they aren't the good guys.

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Strange_Compote_4592 t1_je3xeak wrote

That's why we did not deserve Lyons(

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PleaseRecharge t1_je43fg2 wrote

RIP Lyons, fuck Maxon

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Ezekiel2121 t1_je4dwh5 wrote

You sound like a synth.

Fuck Lyons, Maxon for life.

>!I kid I was so hyped to get the Lyons’ Pride power armor in 3. I wish it would run on my computer!<

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Ganon2012 t1_je4oupq wrote

If you have New Vegas, try Tale of Two Wastelands. It made 3 work for me since it's technically New Vegas running.

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ZiggysStarman t1_je59vjf wrote

And if you don't have new Vegas....just why? What are you waiting for?

Kidding aside, tales of 2 wastelands is what allowed me to finally replay FO3 after more than a decade. The downside is that by the time you get to NV you can pretty much march straight to the legion and murder everyone

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Ganon2012 t1_je5jkxk wrote

Yeah, I am a Wasteland God by the time I get out west. I don't bring any of the weapons or armor with me though (ammo excluded since it's so abundant in 3 with the press). I also figure it's more realistic for a courier to get "killed" in normal wear as opposed to perfect condition winterized power armor....now I'm imagining Benny just bouncing bullets off you as you slowly walk up to him, face obscured by the helmet.

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AzraelChaosEater t1_je5wzb9 wrote

I got the GOG version of both and they work fine for me.

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xrufus7x t1_je7r1zk wrote

Fallout 3 was broken until about a year ago on modern machines then Bethesda randomly pushed out a patch completely removing the Windows Live integration that was breaking it. Since then, a lot more people can run it but it is still pretty hit and miss.

Generally speaking though TTW is considered the most stable way to play Fallout 3 on modern PCs.

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Strange_Compote_4592 t1_je4rkt0 wrote

Hey, I can help. I guess you have Win10, and the game crashes? Whatever it is, you can send me a DM, I probably can help you with F3.

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Ezekiel2121 t1_je65oco wrote

I have windows 7. And the game won’t even start.

New Vegas does though.

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Strange_Compote_4592 t1_je6aol0 wrote

Run the fallout3.exe as an administrator + in compatibility mode with Windows XP SP2

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Ezekiel2121 t1_je6ze4w wrote

I feel like that’s something I’ve tried in the past but didn’t work, I’m saving the comment for the next time I boot up my computer though. Thank you.

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skoomski t1_je6uejz wrote

Maxon was their ward he took over after both them died, completed Sarah’s goal of elimination the super mutants while reinterpreting the Outcast to the BoS. He also is not nearly as radical as the hardliner BoS originals or as naive as the elder Elder Lyon (not a typo)

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spoungeeddieIV t1_je5fsmw wrote

If you are interested in going down the rabbit hole there is a decent amount of evidence that shows how Lyons was killed by maxons mentors while he was a child to ensure he rose to be the leader.

It is oddly similar to Arthurian legend

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Spaced-Cowboy t1_je7m3hj wrote

Lyon’s is one of the worst military leaders in the series. Like he’s a good guy and altruistic. But he’s absolutely awful at leading others. He tries to act like a police force in DC when he doesn’t have the resources to do so. He got many of his recruits killed. Failed to stop a mutiny and allowed them to leave with a huge amount of his own troops and gear. And has his forces scattered around the wasteland protecting nonessential positions they can barely hold with almost no way to recoup their losses. Hell even his own men say so.

Lyons is the reason why so many of his people got killed.

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Strange_Compote_4592 t1_je8qt3o wrote

While I don't entirely disagree. I still think Lyons was a good leader. The Outcasts would leave no matter what. If Lyons didn't let them go with peace, there would be unnecessary bloodshed. And, also, keeping ANYONE alive in the worst place of post-war America is wishful thinking. I don't think any military one was prepared to Capital Wasteland. Even schmuck like Maxon (the older one).

FO4's Maxon has it easy with Enclave and Supermutant threads defeated by Lone Wanderer and Sarah respectively.

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fucuasshole2 t1_je4nuf7 wrote

They are pretty good though. Not sure where OP got BoS raiding people’s homes though for scraps of tech. If anyone that does it, it was the Mojave chapter. Even then it’s only after obtaining one of 4 major endings.

Lyon’s “generosity” was not because he was selfless and altruistic. He fucked up by directly disobeying orders and was told to fuck off.

With no more recruits coming from the West, he got desperate. He purposely relaxed recruitment protocols for bolstering his forces. His attitudes caused serious harm as inexperienced BoS members fell quick, taking the more reliable ones with them.

Outcasts rebelled and went Westward with as much tech as willing.

Once both Lyons passed, Maxson eventually took over. He knew Lyons was right but not with how quick or disorganized.

Non-humans are not shot on-sight: Supermutants attack first, they make comments about Strong but do not kill him or attempt to.

Ghouls had potshots taken at them, but Lyon’s Chapter did this too before Maxson took over. Danse has his affinity raised for helping Ghouls. Even congratulating the ones at the Slog for their hard work.

Synths are a bit of a different story. I don’t like Maxson’s stance but he can be convinced to spare one. This could be a key moments that shifts for future releases. Time will tell. But what exactly are the capabilities of a synth?

First free synth settlement…commits same atrocities as Institute did. Just as BoS feared

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Witty_Interaction_77 t1_je4uryp wrote

I don't think letting synths run free is a good thing. If they start self replicating, it is over for humans any time they so choose. Humans can be trusting, but it's not in our nature to allow such competition to survive. Synths aren't affected by radiation, hunger, thirst, poison, and can replace destroyed limbs. They are perfect for the wasteland. Smart machines which can be terrifying combatants or perfect slaves.

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boxsmith91 t1_je6rn5p wrote

... except most of this only applies to generation 2 synths. And generation 2 didn't have true AI. Gen 3, as far as I remember, has all the same drawbacks that natural born humans do.

Now, could they modify gen 3s to be more resistant to rads or regrow limbs. Probably, but I'm not sure that's in scope for the discussion.

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Samakira t1_je6sqr4 wrote

gen 3 are still immune to radiation.

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boxsmith91 t1_je6sxpz wrote

And that's canon? I haven't played the game in years but I feel like I would have remembered that.

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Samakira t1_je6t9cv wrote

yes. its possible for a settler to have been an institute synth, and if happiness is low enough, they will rampage, like in diamond city. the easiest way to find out is via the vats weakness perk, since anything thats not a ghoul/robot and has full radiation immunity is a synth.

this is also how we know sole survivor is not a synth, since radiation does damage them.

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boxsmith91 t1_je6tl76 wrote

That feels more like Bethesda not bothering to differentiate gen 2 from gen 3 in their code than actual lore. I dunno, I'm skeptical unless it's actually stated in terminals / dialog somewhere.

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Samakira t1_je6ufkf wrote

gen 3 synths are the only humanoid ones. so bethesda specifically chose to give this special group of npcs radiation immunity.

nick also states, if you take him to the glowing sea, that radiation isnt much of a problem for him, due to him being a synth. nick is also one of 2 prototypes for gen 3 synths. (DiMa being the other), so presumably, especially with gen 3 synths having the immunity, it does ally to them.

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boxsmith91 t1_je6w9sj wrote

.... except Nick and dima have the body of a gen 2. That is to say, mechanical. Of course they're immune.

You say, "specifically chose", but it could just be a simple case of copying the stats from gen 2 and pasting them to save time. This IS Bethesda we're talking about here. Without specific dialog to confirm it, I remain skeptical.

In the creation kit, ARE gen 3 synths even their own race? I'm not a modder so I don't know how to check. I always assumed they just plopped synth components in the inventories of regular human NPCs.

And all of that aside, it doesn't really make sense when you think about it. Gen 3 was designed to pass for / infiltrate humans. Not getting sick from rads would be super suspicious. Furthermore, the amount of genetic manipulation that would be required to make them immune would probably trigger all sorts of bio / DNA scans. Not saying many exist in the wastes, but it's still a really dumb idea.

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Samakira t1_je6wnp3 wrote

They would have to be separate, since they have their own programming, like the murder rage on low happiness, as well as having full rad immunity. They have a completely separate ai to gen 2, due to being settlers, not enemies (the only other type of gen 2 we meet)

edit: dont downvote them just for not agreeing with me, yall.

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WindUpShoe t1_je3hqyx wrote

To a schmuck wearing a leather jacket with one sleeve, armed with a shitty pistol, these guys seemed absolutely godlike in the first couple of games. Even the name sounded awesome. THE BROTHERHOOD OF STEEL. I guess it's why I keep falling for this faction lol. It's like Mr. House says in New Vegas when you object to destroying the Brotherhood.

"Don't tell me you've fallen for the stories of noble paladins on crusades...."

Oh, I have, House, I have.

Nice artwork, btw. The armors are so detailed.

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Ezekiel2121 t1_je4dyzx wrote

“Better the “noble” Paladin than the undying Lich.”

I say as I open House’s pod to let him rot.

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CaptainQuoth t1_je3ur0q wrote

Their biggest mistake remains parking their blimp in visual range of my artillery.

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ExploerTM t1_je4ej9o wrote

"Whats your artillery range?"

"Oh just from here to there"

"Thats the entire Commonwealth"

"I OWN THIS PLACE BITCH"

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Mcmenger t1_je4nmke wrote

"Hand over Maxon's Coat, or else...!"

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ExploerTM t1_je4ns9c wrote

Hilariously that is the reason I usually end up fighting Brotherhood.

Bastard got some DRIP and I'll be damned if I wont steal it for myself

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TJzzz t1_je3ufx3 wrote

brotherhood of steel are the equivalent to a 40k chapter, the "good guys".

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ezone2kil t1_je43ahm wrote

Unless you're xeno filth, which most of the post-vault population are.

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BrienneOfDarth t1_je5x7un wrote

So the Salamanders?

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TJzzz t1_je5yht8 wrote

They burn children in the first few chapters you're introduced

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br0mer t1_je70yw5 wrote

salamanders or bos?

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TJzzz t1_je7egnd wrote

Salamanders, in the first book their primarch Volcan torches some eldar and it becomes a major point to his charecter

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br0mer t1_je7q6t5 wrote

ya, salamanders being pyromaniacs have been a staple since the 90s.

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activehobbies t1_je4agjx wrote

I like that the march of time causes each one of their hideouts/enclaves to become independent and do their own thing. Thus, when a new Fallout game comes out, you don't necessarily know how THAT chapter's gonna be like.

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Abrahamlinkenssphere t1_je4b2wt wrote

I feel like most everyone here isn’t going in on this fact enough. Almost 200 years have passed since the BOS formed. A lot can change in 200 years.

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mkul316 t1_je55ifs wrote

Just like how they treat the rangers in wasteland.

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IAmTheClayman t1_je3t9t9 wrote

The other BoS factions get stuff done… just not stuff the rest of the Wasteland likes

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Koifish_Coyote t1_je3c2rr wrote

I don't know the lore. Which of these are splinter factions?

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spoungeeddieIV t1_je3e2hn wrote

I guess you can say all but 1,2 and NV are splinters but let's not forget the outcasts

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CevicheLemon OP t1_je3dwmc wrote

All of them but Fallout, Fallout 2, and New Vegas

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011Vale t1_je3k5qs wrote

FNV brotherhood was in splinters but was way too attached to the old brotherhood ideals for their own good lol

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JohnCrichtonsCousin t1_je3znqt wrote

NV BoS was, imo, the writers trying to set the record straight about the fact that the BoS is just another tribe, and has no unity of thought, just unity of survival. Sometimes people with power and numbers choose to do good, and the definition of good changes with context. The only reason they have any cohesion across decades and locations is the fact they wear the same shit and use the same hierarchical structure and designations. Otherwise they're distinct tribes with distinct motives, circumstances and leadership, and seemingly no overlap with other sects other than their shared knowledge, access to high tech, and burning design to aquire more. Those that do have communication/cooperation with other sects are just larger tribes essentially.

So was NV BoS "good"? Elijah could've held Helios 1 imo, even if it cost the sect half or more of their numbers. He would've caused a lot of suffering for the Mojave with that power. McNamara perhaps didn't know that, but he knew Elijah had gone crazy and wasn't going to watch him sacrifice their sect for power. He stuck true to BoS philosophy there. Hiding and refusing to use their resources to help the Mojave wasn't exactly doing good, but McNamara was keeping his people alive and trying to make the best next move possible. I don't think NV BoS really applies to this criticism since the best good they could manage was to keep Elijah was bringing the second apocalypse to the Mojave. Failing to branch out and aid in other ways is hardly a moral demerit.

Imo NV BoS is just lame, perhaps by design. The scout teams all died...and you survived these locations, alone in some cases, without power armor. Repconn is just sitting there full of tech and rockets ffs with only some ghouls and muties in the way. The BoS probably could've retrofitted a rocket into a guided nuke to send to Caesar's tent. There is all this power sitting around the Mojave that even the player can't make full use of, yet seems the only one capable of securing it. If the BoS found the Big Empty??

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ExploerTM t1_je4etrt wrote

Veronica's quest is literally to prove BoS that if they not get their asses out of bunker even fucking Fiends and Legion gonna get their shiny asses, and sooner rather than later

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Zazels t1_je4hl6k wrote

Fallout 4 is reconnected as a main chapter after Maxon takes over.
So if you're not counting the Mojave Chapter as a splinter, the Maxon's Chapter defo isn't one.

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OneWingedA t1_je4h7yf wrote

Given Fallout 4 BoS is run by a man that was a child when Enclave remnants were surrendering to join the BoS yeah it's entirely possible he was just indoctrinated into their ideology.

It's not that like that kind of thing doesn't happen in the real world already

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Logondo t1_je42sxl wrote

BOS is a very interesting faction, because they understand that the world was destroyed due to misused technology, so they decide to horde all the technology for themselves.

It's like, they have to clear the landmines out of the monkey-cages.

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Desanvos t1_je8vtjs wrote

Problem is after acquiring the land mines they throw them at the monkeys they don't like.

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Firemagewizard_ t1_je4pgnj wrote

Jeez idk almost like the brotherhood are meant to be doomed from the offset because of the failings of their ideology

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RichterRicochet t1_je3yr0t wrote

Ohai Cev.

We miss you on /r/FoxholeGame.

Okay bai

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CevicheLemon OP t1_je4luam wrote

Don’t have any plans of returning, but may be checking out Anvil

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0b0011 t1_je4x8n3 wrote

For anyone interested a canticle for Leibowitz, the book that inspired them, is a pretty good read.

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gaegreen t1_je5bzfq wrote

They were the best in Fallout 3.

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gahidus t1_je45xym wrote

The chart looks about right to me.

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hymen_destroyer t1_je4weus wrote

Holy shit someone actually played fallout B.O.S.? What an awful game that was...

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Nao_Eragon t1_je55lqt wrote

Cev ? You were here all this time ?

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CevicheLemon OP t1_je5idpv wrote

I left Foxhole, I still make comics and maps for other communities

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Nao_Eragon t1_je5q76u wrote

I know, it's just funny to see you here.

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TechnicalReturn6113 t1_jeco8eb wrote

there was an incident that happened and she got bullied out because people didn't agree with her but wabaBoie

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Gob_Hobblin t1_je5r71o wrote

Honestly, I dig it. You're never gonna find an organization in the real world that's 100% wedded to a single ideology, so having the BoS all over the place with its ideals and actions in different places and time periods feels pretty realistic to me.

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Spaced-Cowboy t1_je7mj4m wrote

It doesn’t really make much sense to find them all over the place those and in execution it feels like replaying the same story line over and over again.

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AzraelChaosEater t1_je5y65z wrote

Its sad but op has a point.

What's worse is these guys clearly can stand the test of time, surviving from 2076 to nearly 200 years later, yet they always turn to authoritarian and power hungry motives that make them no better than the standard raider. The BoS has the power to become the hero that reunites the wasteland, but are just as easily capable of tearing it apart.

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bustedbuddha t1_je4n70h wrote

fallout 4 is a splinter group. I thought it was the reunified BOS I thought it was that the outcasts of fallout 3 won and then had combined with air resources from the western brotherhood.

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CevicheLemon OP t1_je4ok4j wrote

Nah FO4 BoS was given official permission to make Maxson an Elder from Lost Hills and re-established comms and everything

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bustedbuddha t1_je4yeut wrote

Exactly, so they weren’t a splinter group right?

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CevicheLemon OP t1_je50i8i wrote

The others went no-contact or broke away, the BoS in 4 basically got a seal of approval due to their results and relatively similar ideology to the original BoS to do their own thing

So still a splinter

0

Catty_C t1_je6139b wrote

Makes you wonder why the East Coast still cares about being in contact with the West Coast because they're actually more powerful than the West Coast.

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mario80050hg t1_je6sl2x wrote

Fallout 3:

"Disavow the BoS and it's ideals." - Other way around, the BoS disavowed them.

Fallout 4:

"Military junta that violently raids people's homes." - This is not true.

"Commits genocide against all non-standard humans, like Enclave." - This is also not entirely true as they don't go after non feral ghouls, they still don't like them tho.

"Disavow the BoS for not being imperialist enough." - Not true as the Elders back west were the ones that agreed to Arthur Maxson being Elder.

Fallout 76:

"Help people in Appalachia selflessly. Willingly ally and work with other good factions." - Both of these are true but it didn't last long.

"Disavow the BoS for straying from selfless ideals" - This is also not true, if anything the Appalachian BoS were the selfish ones, but they were still loyal to the end.

Now technically these are all true with the NEW Appalachian BoS, but not the original one.

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UncomfortableReview t1_je43u0a wrote

Bloat and bureaucracy.

It keeps everything slowed down. People at the top keep kicking the can down the road because it gets them paid for minimal work.

1

Bastymuss_25 t1_je43zt5 wrote

Almost like the fallout license has been passed around a whole bunch and the lore is a complete fucking mess at this point.

Dunno how you get invested in that universe at this point.

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Carl_Townsend t1_je4e1sy wrote

It's easier just to seperate them into the Interplay/Black Isle/Obsidian canon and the Besthesda canon. Tactics and BoS are considered non-canonical at the point.

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ExploerTM t1_je4ey5v wrote

Iirc MATN recently ranted that Tactics gets referenced quite a few times in F4 so that might have been changed

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GloatingSwine t1_jea85ln wrote

Simple, you treat everything other than 1, 2, and New Vegas as weird fanfiction.

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UsesMSPaint t1_je5km6u wrote

When do the FO4 BOS mention anything about the enclave?

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FrostZephyr t1_je5mlgj wrote

It's almost as though that's the point of the Brotherhood. The fact that they are tech fetishists who are constitutionally incapable of succeeding in the long term because of their inability to adapt. The BoS is a great metaphor for technocratic isolationism. The splinter groups are for the "the curtains are just blue" kids in the back of the class who saw the cool power armor guys and made that into their identity.

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Redrum1917 t1_je5pq8r wrote

Because BoS are supposed to be assholes

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Andaelas t1_je6h7aq wrote

In 76 the BOS isn't there to help selflessly. They came to scout the situation of the East Coast and discovered something that could collapse everything.

They're still very isolationist, and won't associate with anyone who doesn't join up. They don't target the raiders or join the settlers.

1

--______--______-- t1_je6i2hh wrote

It only means one thing, fallout brotherhood of steal is inconsistent as all hell.

1

themagicbong t1_je6mq5j wrote

The new vegas one is only isolationist if you leave them with the same guy in charge. But thats kinda the point, you can have them be extremely different depending on what you choose to do.

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Apart-Jackfruit-328 t1_je7907l wrote

The point of Fallout was there was rarely any "good" people, apart from the vault dweller...if you choose them to be.

That's what makes the shade of grey BoS more fun as most of the time you can change them. Making your actions have more of an impact.

Only exception is Fallout 4 I believe where there is a secret ending you can do where they all get on but I believe it's more of a "Genocide on hold." Than anything else. It's been a long time since I played fallout 4 so could be wrong.

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rikashiku t1_je83amt wrote

The original BoS Chapters we see in earlier games, while iconic, are living a singular ideology that excludes others from their cult. It is an ideology that is built to fail.

The Lyons chapter succeeds and thrives, because they include outsiders into their ranks, and build trade agreements with outsiders.

Those who break away from the isolationist views and action, are doing so for survival, and thus they do survive and thrive.

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TheawesomeQ t1_je4pft9 wrote

Dunno what any of this means

0

do_not_the_cat t1_je6tnlz wrote

ist fallout tactics and fallout brotherhood of steel the same game?

0

A_Wild_VelociFaptor t1_je4fwgq wrote

It's like the original BoS were a "moral grey" fa tion whereas Bethesda's BoS is just objectively good with a pinch of a superiority complex and a dash of healthy racism.

−1

born_at_kfc t1_je51ap1 wrote

Yeah like the Pitt brotherhood faction who became self righteous slavers

−1

CevicheLemon OP t1_je52kwm wrote

Was going to add them and outcasts too, but didn't feel like drawing them

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vibrant_crab t1_je49sfi wrote

Fuck the BoS. I always thought of them as “basically nazis.” Their slogan “ad victorium” always seemed too close to “sieg heil” for me.

−11