Are audiophile headphones that noticeable?

Submitted by BicBoiBen t3_126an3b in headphones

Hello!

I had the hd560s and 770s a while back and returned them because I didn't like them but I was looking to get back into headphones to see if I could experience something maybe I missed out on.

My biggest question is how noticeable is the upgrade? Say if I went for the hd8xx or LCD-2C?

In my opinion, just for reference, some of the large upgrades that were very worth it to me were:

  1. transitioning from 60 hz to 144 hz monitors
  2. going from an LED tv to seeing OLED for the first time
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junbi_ok t1_je8mchy wrote

Tip: Don’t just go and buy some random expensive “audiophile” headphone that people on the internet rave about. The most important thing is that they first meet your taste. An expensive headphone that doesn’t fit your preferences is never going to impress you. I can’t stand headphones with rolled off bass, so listening to HD600s will always be a disappointing experience for me regardless of how much everyone else seems to love them.

What kind of frequency response do you prefer? Do you like over-ears, on-ears, earbuds, or IEMs? Open back, closed back, semi-closed? How much do you value soundstage and imaging? If you don’t know the answers to all of these questions, figuring them out after you spend $1000 on a headphone is a great way to find yourself with buyer’s remorse. Play around with different options in the budget range to figure out what you like, then upgrade from there.

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Lightning4X t1_je8oqur wrote

I've met people who even modest audiophile grade headphones were able to change their entire perspective on the potential of sound. I've met others of whom I've put 8xx on their heads, and they couldn't tell the difference between it and airpods.

I think it really comes down to the individual.

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Juan-punch_man t1_je8zhto wrote

Imo it’s because of their expectations of how music should sound. They’ve listened to music from mediocre equipment their whole life and enjoyed it that way. Their hearing isn’t used to the subtle nuances and details from a hifi headphone. If you gave your friend the 8xx and he/she spent a couple of months with them then surely they will notice a world of difference.

Another factor is the genre of music you’re listening to and if you are a detail oriented listener.

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blargh4 t1_je8kiaj wrote

There is no upgrade you can make from the HD560s that's like going to an OLED panel or a 144hz monitor. 60hz is nowhere near the motion resolution of the human eye, and not even OLED is anywhere near the dynamic range of the eye (not sure about color gamut and stuff like that). With headphones, anything decent can reproduce the full range of frequencies you can hear and more dynamic range than you'd want to listen to. Different headphones may have a different tonal balance that you'd find more appealing, but there's just no room for some huge leap in fidelity.

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daddyyeslegs t1_je8hu2o wrote

What didn't you like about them?

But I'll second the other commenter. I don't think you'll be wowed by any headphones. If you have the means and space, maybe look into a decent 2.1 stereo system.

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BicBoiBen OP t1_je8just wrote

I'm not sure how to describe the problem I had with the 770s. They just sounded bad from my untrained ears' perspective.

The main problem I had with the 560s was that it hurt my ears for some reason. Not necessarily related to clamping force, but rather when I would play any type of audio.

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daddyyeslegs t1_je8lj11 wrote

Hmm, so it wasn't so much being underwhelmed by the performance of the headphones, but rather issues you had with the sound itself?

You didn't experience pain with the dt770, but you did with the 560s? That's kind of strange actually. If it's something with actual physical pain (and not just discomfort that you'd get from, for example, piercing treble) you may way to see a doctor about that. You really shouldn't be feeling any pain at all when listening to headphones. Except maybe your wallet!

If it's more treble sensitivity (which still seems odd if it was only the 560s), maybe give either the 650/6xx a try, or the 660s. Both are much darker than the 560s, but are still incredibly capable headphones.

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Spyronight t1_je8q8rp wrote

Highly suggest you go to a store and test some headphones, only a couple headphones have wowed me that I decided to keep. You may have not been driving them properly with a decent amp or maybe they didnt fit your head. I have sone decent cans, not the best but I think you will be wowed by a set that will fit ‘YOUR’ parameters, not anyone in this subs if you try some.

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not_a_masterpiece t1_je8ndtp wrote

Instead of spending like $1500, try the Edition XS planars for $500. I recently added this to complement my HD6xx and it’s a very, very different sound (in a good way, IMO). The fit is weird but it sounds great.

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Facelift13 t1_je8rb4d wrote

I think buying headphones has to be a journey. I didn't start with $1000+ headphones. I started with $150 headphones and after 3 years and about 40 pairs of headphones later I KNOW what I like and what I don't. I now own multiple pairs of headphones over $1000+ and they all still wow me to this day and I have hundreds if not thousands of hours in them. They are that good.

Sound is so subjective that no one can tell you what you will like. I have absoluyetly hated beloved headphones and adored trash headphones. Reviews only work if the person reviewing the item has a similar taste to you. If they don't then whatever they say is meaningless.

Start cheap. It seems fruitless but it pays off in the end.

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kindofbluetrains t1_jefnksx wrote

I agree, but I think for anyone possibly reading this without the financial means to go whole hog on buying multiple flagships as I had, can also recognize that they can likely have an enormously satisfying journey without breaching the $1000 mark, and hopefully feel minimal FOMO.

There is so much capability and choice, while certain flagships might be someone's bag, I think it's important to acknowledge there is loads of high performing mid-fi available that may be more than enough to satisfy some people.

I really agree it's I'm important to start small, jumping on the wrong flagship could be a waste. i.e., I had the Beyerdynamic T1 flagship when it was brand new. I auditioned them with limited listening experience. I though they were good for a minute, then realized fairly quickly I absolutely hated them with large portions of my music library.

I tried out 16 pairs of Mid-fi, and some flagship level pairs. In the end my favourites were the modest Audio-Technica R70x, HD600, Grado SR-60 and Koss KPH30i. I sold the rest and feel great with what I have for the last 6 years ish.

For brand to brand comparison from my favourite pairs, I had the Sennheiser (HD650, HD800), Grado (SR125, PS500 and flagship) and Koss ESP-950 electrostatic flagship.

I'm not saying I disliked them these by any means at all, they were all quite impressive, especially for their time, but the ones over $1000 didn't necessarily connect with me any better... personally. So not even escalating by brand made the difference for me.

I tend to desire, dare I say prefer in my experience so far nothing more than Entry/Mid-fi tuned to my tastes. Where others may absolutely love certain pairs over $1000 they connect with. There may also be some I haven't heard, but would like.

My point is, exactly as you say, if I had had more understanding of my tastes back then, I may have avoided dropping big money on certain flagships that ultimately wouldn't connect with me, and could have better assessed headphones at any level more regarding my tastes.

Even then, I've heard much of the current increasingly megabuck level flagships, properly amped, my own music, time to listen, and just had no interest in the things I heard. Not one I've heard illicited the emotion and physical response I have listening to the R70x especially, or any of my other favourites.

The fact I can still jam out to my very first pair of Grado SR-60 and just get absolutely lost in the music, yet feel absolutely meh about bleeding edge $6000cdn headphone (before the cost of the amping them), probably speaks to just how personal the whole experience is.

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PhoenixRisingtw t1_je9bdux wrote

Try HiFiMAN Edition XS, around 500$. Thank me later.

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synthwav3z t1_je8ouqf wrote

I think the line between audiophile & what’s subjectively enjoyable to each person based on preference is often blurred. I don’t like most things classified as ’audiophile’ (except my jds element)

I recommend looking into IEMs if you want more of a ‘wow’ factor, plus they’re often cheaper and easier to drive efficiently. Another benefit if you try some IEMs is I always gift extra to friends since they aren’t outrageously priced and anyone can get great sound from their apple dongle. I’m currently satisfied with tygr 300r for over ears and ikko OH10 for IEMs. The Ikko’s block out 100% of outside noise and are insanely wide & immersive.

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atyne_mar t1_je8sb2b wrote

You just tried some of the brightest, most analytical headphones at the price. Maybe you just didn't enjoy the sound signature. I personally don't like either of them too. Both are too thin and tense for my taste. Try something with a more casual tuning. Find out what you enjoy and what you don't. Move from there.

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No-Context5479 t1_je8t3r1 wrote

Well the HD560S is thin sounding imo and the 770 Pro has treble excess and a hole in the lower midrange and midbass crossover so yes it will sound weird.

Also maybe you don't like headphones

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MostPatientGamer t1_je9o4mf wrote

Really depends on what you consider to be an "upgrade".

When I made the jump from DT770 to LCD-2C I was a bit disappointed. My expectations were that of a linear upgrade in the same way you would get with upgrading a graphics card - I was expecting to literally hear more sounds in my music, which was not really the case. It was more like I was able to focus better on the subtle sounds that I already knew were there, but there wasn't too much brand new information I could substract from the track.

From that point of view and at that time it didn't really feel worth it. But at the same time that's a somewhat limiting way of looking at it.

Now take that same LCD-2C, EQ it a bit to add a few more db in the mid to sub bass region as well as a bit of treble, and then pair with a record such as Infrared Horizon by Artificial Brain. That EQ combined with the 2Cs relatively intimate yet at the same time thunderous soundstage, its bass extension characterized more by a sense of audible vibration rather than slam, alongside that subtle "plucked" sound specific to plannars, and you get yourself an experience that is so different from the DT770 that may as well arguably worth x4 times the price depending on your preferences. It's not downright better in the same way that upgrading from 60 to 120 hz is better or from LED to OLED is better, but it's such a different way of experiencing your music that it can be worth it, very much so or somewhat so depending on your personal preferences.

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ImPattMan t1_je8foli wrote

To be frank. If you didn't enjoy the hd560s and dt770 then likely your expectations are too high. I don't believe you will get much more out of more expensive headphones.

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09212 t1_je9vj68 wrote

or… they just didn’t fit his preferences?

those headphones represent one type of frequency response lol. they’re incredibly neutral with a slight tilt towards brightness. i can absolutely see how they could sound “shrill” or “thin” to a newcomer, especially the beyers which are outright sibilant at times

that’s not to say i don’t like them — but i wouldn’t have enjoyed them if they were my first cans. i’m still glad i invested in other headphones

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ImPattMan t1_je9vrq8 wrote

They're both tuned to the Harman target more of less. They're going to sound at least decent to most anyone.

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09212 t1_je9wofg wrote

i’m not trying to start an argument here. but have you actually tried them?

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entivoo t1_je8w7ma wrote

There is a law of diminishing return and I think most expensive headphone are specialized in a certain aspect and most of the time the increase in sound quality that you get is so much less that what you expect considering the additional money you spend on them.

I suggest getting an entry level headphone, preferably below $300, and once you find a sound signature that you really like, it might be the right time to get something that is an upgrade to that kind of sound signature and move on to the more of the top of the line headphone. At that time you should be able to appreciate the small incremental increase in the type of sound that you really like.

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whathehellnowayeayea t1_je9228c wrote

a monitor upgrade is immediately noticable, audio quality will take a little while to get used to. maybe you didn't give it enough time

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The_MoBiz t1_je96nvq wrote

I had AKG K712 Pros, which were great headphones....I recently upgraded to Hifiman Sundaras...and omg....so worth it!

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sunjay140 t1_je9nvtz wrote

Lots of expensive headphones are badly tuned and sound worse than cheap, well tuned headphones like the 560s.

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Tanachip t1_je9oe5i wrote

I went directly to the Focal Clear og when I initially got serious about headphones. I love them, and don't feel like I ever need to upgrade again.

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Kingstoler t1_jea6jcw wrote

Absolutely. But you have to know what you want. Being able to test out headphones is a good idea. Most of the time though it's a "sidegrade", finding the sound signature and tuning you prefer. As much as I like my HD650 there are noticeably big differences between my more expensive headphones, such as bass extension, soundstage, imaging etc.

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tvang187 t1_jeak8mg wrote

First of all, what do you even like in music? Dropping a grand on headphones, and not knowing what sort of Frequency you enjoy is just asking to not only be 100% disappointed, but also having 200% buyers remorse.

Also, some people generally just aren't audiophiles, couldn't care less about the technicalities of sound, or the last 10% increase that other people swear that they can hear (me included in that bunch). Like my Dad for example, is just not impressed at all by hi-fi audio. He went to Canjam with my brother and tried freaking Electrostats and said they were boring LMFAOOO.

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Expensive_Yam_1742 t1_jeawalz wrote

It really depends on how you listen and what you appreciate. Audiophile is kindve a loose term. There is technically accurate, high resolution, good tonality, things like that that are more objective. Expensive headphones don’t generally have the same price/performance ratio as speakers. They don’t keep getting that much better past a certain price. Find something that suits your tastes and if you love it, it’ll be worth the upgrade. It’s good to try some stuff out and decide for yourself what might be worth the upgrade. I’d check out hifiman, beyerdynamic, and focal. They have good variation in sound signature and offer some very high end options. Also easy to find and try which is the most important. I’m assuming you probably don’t like sennheiser but they make some seriously good models as well.

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mistersprinkles1983 t1_jecn0o3 wrote

Don't listen to advice. Go listen to expensive headphones. And remember you'll need a good amp/DAC to pair with them. If you throw $1000 at LCD2C, throw $800 at a decent amp/DAC, like a Fiio K9.

Seriously though, you can learn a lot through reviews and frequency response graphs but you have to hear headphones. Go to Hifi and headphone shops. Talk to dealers and ask to audition stuff. Some will send you stuff to try. Some audiophile forums out there have reps from these companies that will loan you stuff to try. The best option by far though is a hifi shop that has 100 pairs of headphones out to try.

There are so manyh variables out there. Even saying "I really like bass/midrange and I enjoy hip hop" is not enough information. Even if you added more information its still not enough, because everyone hears differently. To use your own example- you know how you have that ONE friend that looks at your 144Hz monitor and says "I dont see a difference"? Audio is like that.

Go try headphones. Tis the only way

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vext01 t1_jedoi2n wrote

> Guys, after years of experimenting with my ZMF Aeolus and Focal Clears, spending countless hours debating open backs vs closed backs, and drooling over Schiit DACs and amps, I finally figured out the secret to audio nirvana... It was the Koss Porta Pro all along!

(Generated by a-fi bot, seemed relevent here 🤣)

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wijnandsj t1_je8zg39 wrote

>My biggest question is how noticeable is the upgrade? Say if I went for the hd8xx or LCD-2C?

Law of diminishing returns hits hard here. Also your whole flow will play a role here. If you got mediocre source material and a cheap amp you might as well not bother

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VisceralVoyage420 t1_je8zs72 wrote

I used the DT770 for 10 years, recently tried them again and I don't like them anymore lol.

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TheHelpfulDad t1_je8juf6 wrote

If you’re listening to lossy or low res music services like Spotify, pandora or Apple, and/or Tidal at their lowest quality or the one where you can store the most songs in the least amount of space, headphones aren’t going to make a difference.

The better headphones you get, the more you get out of the music. But if there’s nothing to get out of the music because it’s been compressed out or so little data from low sample rates, there’s no point

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BicBoiBen OP t1_je8jyoy wrote

Would Spotify on its best quality be a good enough sample? Or are streaming services in general not too good in that department?

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No-Context5479 t1_je8stuo wrote

That person is speaking horse shit... Spotify is audibly indistinguishable from higher bitrate files of the same master source during an ABX test

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smalg2 t1_je8n88l wrote

Spotify on best quality is 320kbps Vorbis (a patent-free alternative to MP3). It should be virtually indistinguishable from lossless for human ears (while using about 3 times less bandwidth / storage).

Here's a blind test comparing 128 kbps MP3, 320kbps MP3, and lossless. See if you can hear the difference ;-) Personally I can hear the difference between 128kbps and the rest most of the time, but not between 320kbps and lossless.

Note that Vorbis is slightly better than MP3 if I remember correctly, so if you can't hear the difference between lossless and 320kpbs MP3, you likely won't hear the difference between lossless and 320kpbs Vorbis either.

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