Submitted by AutoModerator t3_121l60d in history
camillaakenobi t1_jdwgawx wrote
Why Germany did not lose, technically, the First World War?
quantdave t1_jdwvequ wrote
It gave a very good impression of having done just that: its army was in retreat, the would-be architect of victory Ludendorff had cracked up and run off, its allies were falling in rapid succession (by the last week there weren't any left) and the civilian population was at the end of its tether.
Militarists and nationalists subsequently boasted that the army remained in being, that Germany had not been invaded, and that it had signed an armistice rather than a surrender, and therefore that it wasn't a defeat - the corollary being that in dictating disadvantageous peace terms the allies had somehow abused German magnanimity in calling it a day.
But in reality, by late 1918 the Reich's options were few and unappetising: the big push in the west hadn't achieved the promised victory, and Allied commanders had at last worked out how to overcome the formidable German defences after four years of trial & error, while the US would become an ever more powerful factor in Allied strength.
Germany might have fought on into 1919, but for what? It had lost, and the subsequent treaty was about as just as anything that was likely to emerge from the carnage. The "let's call it a technical draw" take was understandable as a desperate spin by negotiators seeking easier peace terms, but bore little resemblance to reality.
phillipgoodrich t1_jecla92 wrote
Rather echoes the U.S. response at the close of Vietnam, which the U.S. clearly lost.
quantdave t1_jecp64a wrote
... or Britain's various colonial withdrawals, portrayed as a generous granting of independence that had of course been intended all along. In Germany it became bound up with sinister ultranationalist tropes and militaristic nostalgia for supposed wartime solidarity: at least few Vietnam vets wanted a re-run, even if political figures envisaged a global comeback.
Doctor_Impossible_ t1_jdx0xi6 wrote
The claim was (and still is, by some people) that German was never militarily beaten, it was betrayed by its own politicians (and Jews and socialists, who conspired to ensure the country was defeated). The Dolchstosslegende is a pernicious lie, used and spread by the Nazis in particular.
calijnaar t1_jdwracm wrote
Germany most definitely lost the first world war. And what do you mean by "technically" not losing a war?
Thibaudborny t1_je4ne8v wrote
Germany lost in every sense, even technically - as said, it's just a lie spread by those who couldn't accept defeat and sought an excuse.
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