McGillis_is_a_Char t1_jec86zz wrote on March 30, 2023 at 11:17 PM

I am reading A History of Venice from the 1970s, and it uses the term, "the Orient," all the time. I was wondering, when that term went out of favor for historians?

quantdave t1_jecj5v6 wrote on March 31, 2023 at 12:37 AM

I think it was already fading then in favour of the more explicitly relative "East" or fixed area names (the earlier eclipse of "Oriental" presumably having a part in it), though Levant (the same word) survives for the eastern Mediterranean region. Norwich may consciously be adopting an old usage in keeping with the local style of the period, though in England it would probably have been more commonly just "the East".

jezreelite t1_jecplw0 wrote on March 31, 2023 at 1:26 AM

The term really started falling out of favor in academia and general usage after the publication of Orientalism in 1978.

For whatever it's worth, though, my late grandparents were both around the same age as Norwich and they often used "Oriental" in conversation — I guess because old habits die hard.

quantdave t1_jecspe1 wrote on March 31, 2023 at 1:50 AM

I'd say Said was cleverly associating his target with a term that was already falling into disrepute. Geographical shifts in scholarship may also have contributed, Asia being Asia wherever you are, but "Orient" making little sense if it's to your north, south or west.

My parents were of Norwich's vintage but I don't recall encountering either form in childhood except in "We Three Kings" (which I think left us all initially puzzled) or perhaps in period TV dialogue, and thereafter it was already perceived as old-fashioned, so I think Said was using that to his advantage.