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Tiako t1_iz2rfnx wrote

>On a scale of one to six, the authors graded 100 plaques according to how many of six owl characteristics they exhibited, including two eyes, feathery tufts, patterned feathers, a flat facial disk, a beak, and wings. The authors found many similarities between 100 contemporary owl drawings made by kids between the ages of four and thirteen and these plaques. Owl drawings more closely resembled owls as children aged and became more skillful.

I mean maybe but I'm not sure about this methodology.

Given that the article does not say if they are found largely associated with child burials I can only assume they are not.

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curtyshoo t1_iz3rku0 wrote

Does Barbie seem to be modeled by a child, or for a child.

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wolfie379 t1_iz3vxf6 wrote

Neither. She’s based on “Lili”, a German “adult novelty” doll.

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lambchopdestroyer t1_iz3p5vv wrote

Agreed. The author writes "some of the models were found in [child] tombs..."

Why don't they write how many of these were burial associated?

In what context were the rest of these found?

They seem to have very little concrete evidence so far. Honestly, I don't think we'll ever know the usage of these owls beyond them being some kind of cultural or religious artifact.

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Galahead t1_iz457z8 wrote

These objects dont only appear with children. Theyve been found in adults, theres a case of one being found on someones chest, as if it were hanging by a strinng that was lost to time.

So ita interesting the idea the authors present here, but it for sure isnt the only purpose these things could have. And also, a lot of them are not small

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Mister_Bloodvessel t1_iz3sb63 wrote

My first thought was, since people then and people now are not significantly different outside of the technology available, what are the chances these are just legitimately tchochtkes, decorations, and just little trinkets made by people feeling bored and artistic for the purpose of simply making something they thought was "these are just pretty dang neat and fun to make"?

I feel like a lot of stuff found in tombs, burials, and other things often are ascribed a lot of religious significance when in fact it could just be things they were buried with by family because they liked owls, or because it was something a grandchild had made for their grandma? I'm not saying all or even most of the artifacts ascribed religious importance by archeologists are such objects, but there simply must be a handful that are.

I mean, memes are nothing new. And even today, there are millions of people who just enjoy decorative knickknacks that look like owls (just to use the OP as an example), so why should we consider ancient people's to be so different? Maybe a certain culture thought owls were cute, or neat, or maybe the animal did indee hold a religious or superstitious significance which led people to make owl tablets because they found them to be nifty?

Honestly, I think the authors make a reasonable argument about the toys. Kids have always made toys out of things they've found in the woods or whatever, e.g. ever picked up a stick that made the perfect sword or wizard staff? Why should this be so different? What if someone commonly saw owls and thought they were just pretty darn cool, so they tried to make an trinket that looked like the animal they enjoyed?

Just a thought. I'm certainly not an archeologist or anthropologist, but I do wonder how many artifacts like these are ascribed far more significance than their crafters ever intended.

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Hekantonkheries t1_iz3tw2s wrote

I think part of it is necessities of the society.

A lot of the "leisure" activities associated with modern culture is because of material excess afforded by industrialized manufacturing and resource procurement. One worker can literally create thousands of times more product than they could then.

This means the time, labor, and materials of a crafts worker is MUCH more valuable, and thus less likely to be spent on "trinkets". That and, looking at society post-early agriculture, free time didnt really exist much for the majority of the human population, due to social hierarchies and labor demands.

That being said there are some civilizations that would enjoy a certain degree of material excess; usually due to a mass utilization of slaves in lieu of automation in industry (greeks being a prime european example).

Not to say your point has any less validity, just that for a lot of cultures it was literally a case of "ain't got time/money for that"

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Shaushage_Shandwich t1_iz48wly wrote

>A lot of the "leisure" activities associated with modern culture is because of material excess afforded by industrialized manufacturing and resource procurement.

The idea of leisure time and leisure activities only coming about after, and as a result of industrialisation and mass production has been questioned by a lot of people. Here's an interesting article that goes into some of the research that suggest hunter gatherers may have had more leisure time than modern people. https://www.rewild.com/in-depth/leisure.html

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[deleted] t1_iz4cqto wrote

[removed]

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Mastercat12 t1_iz4rhm6 wrote

They worked more then us, on the days they worked. Which was half the year usually. Then it was working on infrastructure projects and leisure.

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ammonium_bot t1_iz97j2y wrote

> worked more then us,

Did you mean to say "more than"?
Explanation: No explanation available.
^^I'm ^^a ^^bot ^^that ^^corrects ^^grammar/spelling ^^mistakes. ^^PM ^^me ^^if ^^I'm ^^wrong ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^any ^^suggestions.
^^Github

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Galahead t1_iz45c1k wrote

These objects are almost exclusively found in larfe monumental stone underground burial tombs. They are also very common in portugal

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[deleted] t1_iz3g42o wrote

[deleted]

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Galahead t1_iz45fen wrote

Its definetly not the whole story. This is a press article, so it picks whatever the press feels is more interesting. Sadly most of the works on these plaques are in portuguese, but there is some in english

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How2Eat_That_Thing t1_iz3jprk wrote

>Many of the plaques have two holes at the top, which the team believes makes threading string through them to hang them as ritual objects impractical.

Or it could just be a pendant. And why would holes make it impractical to hang them? Run a string though the holes and tie a knot. That's kinda how we hang most stuff.

Also if there weren't more intricate depictions of owls at the time then why assume it was children making them? Most petroglyphs from this period weren't exactly what you'd call anatomically correct.

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flowering_sun_star t1_iz6dvvz wrote

Yeah, that struck me as a pile of bollocks. In fact if you want something to hang flat in a particular orientation then two holes like that possibly the best way to go. You can have a single thread enter from the back, cross to the other, and leave to the back again. It can't easily rotate without twisting together the two end of the thread, and the separation between them makes that harder.

Maybe the holes were for something else, but this logic sounds like they wanted to find an excuse to reject the simpler explanation.

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Adept-Donut-4229 t1_iz4cuhd wrote

Lol. Happy birthday, kiddo! Ten pounds of slate is what you asked for, right? Here's a hammer and a chisel. Goo, goo, friggin' ga, ga.

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cosmolitano t1_iz4ybga wrote

Oh my God mom you just don't get it. They are not toys, they're collectibles!!!

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prpslydistracted t1_iz4rx2t wrote

Slate is between 2.5 and 4 on the Mohs scale ... almost as hard as marble and limestone, but not as hard as granite or natural quartz. I can't imagine a young child scribing that hard of stone; early teens, sure. But these are too well done; more on the level of artisan.

It would have to be a much harder stone tool applied with a great deal of pressure. That would require an adult allowing a child/young teen use of valuable tools. Unlikely.

Had these owls been exclusively in children's tombs one might consider it a toy. But they were in adults tombs as well. I think it would be an amulet or deity reference considering the characteristics of owls in general.

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OGPunkr t1_iz5oi6y wrote

oooh...Maybe they were for apprentices to practice on, then given to children.

At first I thought they were given to children as comfort, like the owl looks out for you while you're sleeping kind of thing and some kept them into adulthood. Just like we do now with comfort toys and keepsakes.

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binarypie t1_iz4e2ul wrote

It's late for me and I read this as Owl Plagues.... My brain just couldn't put this together and it took reading the link to understand my error.

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Bababooey5000 t1_iz4sqgn wrote

Regardless of what they were used for, I absolutely love the workmanship of these artifacts. I can definitely see the resemblance of an owl in most of the examples shown in the article. I think that's neat.

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Expensive-Bicycle839 t1_izhfxpn wrote

Sounds suspiciously like a Simpsons bit where Homer & Lisa go to the museum.

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ThatGIRLkimT t1_izkh44y wrote

Kids are talented, they must let them explore their skills.

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ubermenschies t1_iz5dn67 wrote

The big statue at Bohemian Grove is just for fun too

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Kubliah t1_iz5v87s wrote

Sounds like Spain was absolutely infested with owls back in the day...

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[deleted] t1_iz2mlhp wrote

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