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Cool, she served her country wel. In her last fight she contributed to a successful escape of a Dutch merchant convoy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_of_12_March_1672?wprov=sfla1

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Whats the likelihood that she will be raised?

Not much. Wooden ships at the bottom that long aren't really together in a way you can raise anymore.

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No, but it's possible to raise it in pieces and later reassemble it ashore.

That said, unlikely.

Edit: @ below, no it wouldnt disintegrate into dust. It's waterlogged and you cannot let it it just sit there, but need to keep it wet while treating it, but it wont just crumble into dus once you've raised it.

Many wrecks have been preserved this way.

Nah, they're like a powder that is still in it's original shape. Trying to do anything with it would just disintegrate it

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I’d like to dive that wreck with a metal detector though if I was younger and healthier though! It’s crazy to me something like half the gold ever mined is at the bottom of the ocean. I bet at Cape Horn there’s probably billions in gold that sank trying to get through that area in bad weather, but it’s probably tough diving conditions and still a pretty big area to search.

Interesting fact; ships that sailed to the colonies often had gold or silver as cargo to pay the local armies, employees or to pay for trade goods as opposed to ships sailing back, which carried trade goods only.

The "Batavia"is a good example.

Official page about the discovery with multiple videos and photos

https://www.nauticalarchaeologysociety.org/klein-hollandia

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Dunno. But it would make a great tourist attraction to raise it, repair it fully, and put it in a city square or something.

Depends on the water though?

Near Scandinavia there is a place where wooden ships are extremly well preserved while under water.

https://www.marineinsight.com/videos/watch-400-years-old-dutch-merchant-ship-found-in-the-gulf-of-finland/

Cant really find it in the article but there are no bacteria/animals that destroy the wood.

>The condition of the wreck is remarkable and could offer a wealth of information about how 17th-century Dutch ships were built

17th century was not really that long ago in Europe in the grand scheme of things, surely we have a great deal of information already without this bringing some new revelation?
To suggest we do not already have a wealth of information on how 17th century ships were built in Holland just sounds a joke, when the Dutch have a huge history of shipping expertise that's world renowned.

Depends on the state of the wreck and the interest/cost of raising and preserving it.

The Mary Rose and The Vasa are examples of ships that have been raised.

The basic design of the hull is known, the experts were particularly interested by the many repairs and upgrades done to the ship. A layer of pine was attached to the outside and two layers of oak to the inside of the hull. They want to find out how effective it was (I mean, the ship sunk but still) and how common this was.

Not necessarily, just look up the Mary Rose Ship in England

In the Baltic sea, due to low salt, there are no ship worms.

You’d be surprised at how many things people just assume is obvious and never wrote down.

We have no idea how ancient or even medieval armies fought at the front line because it was just obvious to everyone.

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Maybe the English are still holding a grudge over our maritime wars.

Was just about to say this! I find particularly fascinating that we don't don't how hoplites fought - underhand or overhand grip?

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The seas probably lack oxygen there which means no bacteria/animals could live there. Quick Google, Wikipedia tells me the Baltic sea is indeed quite a dead sea.

Interestingly enough this is also the cause of coal/gas/oil in our ground. Without an anoxic environment carbon waste decays and does not transform into our carbon deposits which we use for energy nowadays. Thus big carbon deposits in the ground point to anoxic environments in the past.

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This wreck was featured on an archeology program in the UK and footage shows very little of it remains. Its mostly cannon and cargo lying on the sea floor. The cargo was construction stone so lots of big blocks of stone sitting around on the sea floor. Very little wood wreckage seems to still exist.

So they can bring up stuff like the cannon but when it comes to the wreck itself there is nothing to raise and nowhere near enough to reconstruct from raised bits of it.

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You'd just end up with a newly built ship I reckon.

Don't forget, it has cost over £50 million to preserve The Mary Rose so far. And it will continue to cost a lot to keep the preservation up. And remember £1 million in 1981 money is almost £3.5 million now.

Saying "we can just preserve it" is a lot easier than actually preserving it.

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Its the Vasa, a Swedish warship from 1626. The ship sunk after sailing 1300 meter.

vasa

The Mary Rose was raised in the early 80's. I remember watching it live on tv.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Rose

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I think that there is a copper object because some green metal is visibal

https://www.dsm.museum/en/exhibition/exhibitions/bremen-cog

For anyone interested in similar topics, this is a short museum page about a 1380s Hansa cog found in the Weser river discovered in 1962. It took about 40 years to preserve it enough to be able to present it to the public.

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It's probably not written down because there was no standard. Hoplites trained themselves if they even did that much. Underhand or overhand? Depends on what they were more comfortable with. What they did at the front line? Probably a bit of standoff fighting techniques combined with tactical repositioning, maybe with cavalry, something like what you see in the opening of the Bollywood film Panipat. Though obviously we have no proof and every battle was different but are you really about to run head first into a bunch of dudes with swords? Seems pretty obvious to me that no, not even in a battle would people be that stupid.

Then how did they raise the Mary Rose? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Rose

The Vasa is an excellent example of raising and preserving this kind of ship. She sunk in 1628 and is accepting visitors today.

Almost correct.

My guess is it's bronze. The item seems to be a cannon. While in 1672, iron cannons were commonplace, they stopped manufacturing bronze cannons at least a century ago. But ships cannons got reused extensively since they were so expensive. So it's quite possible that a 200 year old bronze cannon stands next to a 1 year old iron one.

She was carying one million bags of the best Sligo Rags, two million barrels of stone, three million sides of old blind horses hides and four million barrels of bones.

I went to that museum and it was awesome. IIRC there were some special circumstances that allowed the ship to be preserved extremely well (something about the salt concentration, water temperature, maybe the kind of wood used as well).

1672 is still taught in schools as to be the rampjaar (disaster year). The Netherlands were attacked by the English, The French and by the bishop of Munster (Nowadays Germany). The Dutch were very rich and the countries defense was more or less asleep: Money needed to go to trading and the traders and not to the defense of the country. That was not a great idea, so the rampjaar happend. We managed to survive and are still a proud nation.

How did the Netherlands know it was the English and not the French that sank this ship?

I don't know who sank this ship, but the war with France was fought on land, while the war with England was fought at sea. So the ship was most likely sank by the English.

I just don't know how they can contribute this to the start of the 3rd war, the English must of bragged about it.

The Cape is bucket list for lots of divers, but most of us wanna play with the wildlife 🦈

Was it during the Rampjaar that a French cavalry force captured a Dutch ship that was frozen in the ice in I think the Zuider Zee? (Of was het in de Ijselmier?)

I thought the vast majority of coal was formed from trees that fell before there was anything that could break down the lignin in their cells?

"sounds, probably, deduct" all make sense when trying to make the most of the info we have but they are just best guesses at the end of the day.

For all we know battles were intricate dances and those that got the moves wrong were the ones killed. It's not likely but there's a lot of established history we just take as fact when reality is it's probably 70% guesswork.

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I have software source code that was written in the last 10 years at my job at work that is now a mystery that requires unravelling. The exact techniques used to build something that no longer exist are quickly forgotten unless it defines some fundamental technique for the industry. Even then, the overall process isn't likely to be remembered.

Why would they when they came out on top?

another interesting thing that colonial trade ships used a ballast was porcelain because it was heavy and wouldn’t tarnish due to sea water

Yea that all sounds nice but we can put ourselves in their shoes. It's not like some alien race that we have no knowledge of. These are people with very human qualities, and if it was obvious to them it should be obvious to us. This is a classic example of where you should apply Occam's razor.

True, I thought that was the case as well but that hypothesis is being challenged recently. Both ideas are also not mutually exclusive. In swamps around the world you can still see the preservation of carbon life forms.

This was the Rampjaar, or Disaster Year, where the Dutch Republic found itself at war with both France and England. A couple of years later the Dutch eventually prevailed and defeated both otherwise larger powers at sea. True Dutch Golden Age

There is no shipworm in Baltic Sea, that was the main reason for the hull being in a condition that made it possible to raise the wreckage. Shipworm consumes the wood of sunken ships, basically disintegrating them.

"little Holland" sounds like an odd name for a warship. Was it a ship carrying colonists to America or africa?

The Vasa went down in the Baltic Sea.

> The Baltic Sea preserves underwater cultural heritage extremely well primarily due to the low light, low salinity and cold temperature that prevent the proliferation of the Naval Shipworm (Teredo navalis), which devours submerged wood

The Vasa is the exception rather that the rule. Most shipwrecks can't be raised, just like the one we're talking about in this post.

Absolute money sink, and something I don't think was worth it, sure preserve the items from the wreck but just insane money spent to get it to a stable condition

Thanks for this. This is awesome.

Dutch King (or prime minister or whatever they had back then, idk): “It is as though a tiny version of our country has sunk. Sunk beneath the waves.”

The French also contributed a fleet to the war at sea. The Ruyter defeated both fleets at the same time. In the action in which it was taken, the French however didn't participate

That was during the War of the first coalition, more than a century later

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flanders_campaign?wprov=sfla1

It was a smaller warship (just 44 guns) so I guess it fits. And no, it didn't carry colonists.

The war would have happened anyway. This was just the first action and before the official Declaration of war. The English hoped to capture a very valuable merchant convoy while the Dutch were unprepared but it was still unsuccessful

I'll admit to not knowing if the condition of this particular wreck is such that it could be raised - it would be pure speculation on my (and I'd imagine your) part.

My point (poorly made) was that saying there's nothing left but dust is untrue. The Mary Rose was raised (and not from the Baltic), though she's in nowhere near the condition of the Vasa, and the article states that much of the hull here is intact as well.

Can and should this vessel be brought back up - I have no idea. Is it within the realm of possibility given what I know and what the article states? Yes.

Ah. I grew up in the USA, so Dutch history is not my forte despite it being my first language.

Np haha. You can follow my account if you want to learn a bit more about it

Done. Thanks.

It's very odd. I grew up speaking Dutch at home, and both my parents speak not just fluent but eloquent Dutch (university professor and literary translator) so my Dutch is very, very good, but has a weird accent and I know next to nothing about the history and political system. Gets me free beers and strange conversations whenever I'm in NL.

Saw it last year. The size of it is astonishing. I knew it was big before going there, but was still surprised at how large it was, especially for the time period it’s from.

Because it was in the mud. The exposed parts did get obliterated, but a significant portion was actually protected by the silt and mud that encased it.

Really cool piece of history to be found again.