ShawshankExemption t1_j8nawdc wrote on February 15, 2023 at 3:56 PM

Reply to comment by BlaineTog in There’s a push to give teachers (and other public employees) the right to strike in Mass. What to know. by bostondotcom

Private schools don’t face these same issues not because those teachers have a right to strike, but because they tend to be better off financially than public schools because they have more affluent families in their student community, and are able to provide higher/different comp. Not because they are unionized (the vast majority are not). Those teachers contracts actually are individual not collectively bargained.

Look, if you are good ignoring thousands of hours of learning loss, idk what to tell you. It’s a bad in if of itself, regardless of what causes it. It’s a significant price to pay by those who have the least control of the situation (the students).

You are specifically arguing for strikes to become a regular tool available to unions in negotiations. If you can’t see that strikes will become more prevalent regardless of circumstances if they are legalized you are just naive.

The canary in a coal mine is a shit metaphor. You cannot separate teachers and the union from thr situation, they are not some neutral signal like the canary is, they make up the system collectively, with the district/local govt. they are not some neutral signal.

BlaineTog t1_j8nfl6o wrote on February 15, 2023 at 4:28 PM

Private school teachers not feeling the need to unionize is not the flex you think it is. You are absolutely correct that private schools generally have better funding, though. Sounds like we oughta fund our public schools better if we want to avoid frequent strikes, right?

> Look, if you are good ignoring thousands of hours of learning loss, idk what to tell you. It’s a bad in if of itself, regardless of what causes it. It’s a significant price to pay by those who have the least control of the situation (the students).

Learning loss doesn't happen over a single week. If it did, there would be calls to eliminate break weeks and anyone who took their kid out of school for any amount of time would be guilty of child abuse. Grandma passed away in another country and you want to take your child to the funeral? Too bad! CPS is going to show up at your door and drag your kid to school instead.

You can't just aggregate school time loss into a big number and call it harmful because it's big. Learning loss happens individually, so you needs to consider the time lost on an individual basis, and losing a week isn't going to be a serious problem for any individual kid. I'm just saying, let's be honest about why the Woburn strike had people up in a tizzy. It's not the kids who were harmed: it's the parents' pocketbooks and time.

Look, obviously it would be bad for kids if teachers were striking all the time. Giving them the ability to strike legally doesn't mean that will happen. Not giving it to them does mean that schools will continue to rot and die from the inside.

> You are specifically arguing for strikes to become a regular tool available to unions in negotiations. If you can’t see that strikes will become more prevalent regardless of circumstances if they are legalized you are just naive.

They absolutely could be come more common... if the school districts insist on continuing to treat teachers like slaves. The point is that they wouldn't, because their failures to negotiate would be much more public and painful. They'd have to play ball instead of having all the power to themselves.

> The canary in a coal mine is a shit metaphor. You cannot separate teachers and the union from thr situation, they are not some neutral signal like the canary is, they make up the system collectively, with the district/local govt. they are not some neutral signal.

It's a perfectly good metaphor regardless of the interconnectivity of the system. Strikes don't happen in healthy workplaces.

ShawshankExemption t1_j8nkavg wrote on February 15, 2023 at 4:59 PM

I didn’t say non-unionized private schools were good/better because of their non-unionization. I’m saying your logic that because those teachers can strike, it is the root cause for why they don’t strike is a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy and provide what I believe is the alternative mechanism for why they don’t experience strikes.

There are absolutely folks questioning the utility of the winter and spring breaks in mass, as well as the summer gap, and if our agricultural society based education calendar is still appropriate today.

If you are dealing with district wide learning time loss, you absolutely do have to aggregate it together. Is each student going to ‘suffer’ the exact same? Not at all, some will have it hit them more than others. But you can’t just hand waive it all away. Those examples you present are individual kids and situation as determined by the parents. If school district decided to close a school for a month because of utility issues and just sent the kids home you’re sure as shit there would be an inquiry. If a parent took their kids out of school for a month? Sure as shit CPS and the school are going to have questions.

Strikes aren’t the only tool possible to protect teachers. They are just your preferred tool.