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Cobrawine66 t1_ivok5y6 wrote

Libertarians are Republicans.

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Linux-Is-Best OP t1_ivol15r wrote

Libertarians are conservatives on steroids. The fact that they've been growing in popularity in the past has been scary. It's good to see a more progressive alternative gain some ground.

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spitfish t1_ivoolnl wrote

This is a good time to remind everyone of what happened when Libertarians took over Grafton, NH.

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The-Shattering-Light t1_ivpwdk8 wrote

Yeah Libertarianism is an adolescent fantasy that has never succeeded in running a stable and secure society

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BrockVegas t1_ivoscm0 wrote

From my experience, Libertarians are just republicans who don't have the stones to just admit it in current company.

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[deleted] t1_ivpeddm wrote

[deleted]

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BrockVegas t1_ivpezu1 wrote

I just can' t swallow the Laissez-faire take on society that libertarians have. It denies objective reality in favor of warm platitudes.

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SLEEyawnPY t1_ivr5ojc wrote

Right-libertarians have largely made their peace with the idea of a highly authoritarian state. You can have a high degree of economic freedom in a police state, see e.g. Pinochet's Chile. And individual freedoms are a far distant afterthought in their pantheon compared to where property owning & private property rights fall.

That is to say the right-libertarian MO tends to be "To make an omelette you have to break a few eggs", or to have a large degree of economic freedom you still need to have a small and efficient night watchman-type state, whose primary job is (efficiently) performing a disappearing act on undesirables who think right-libertarianism isn't the best way to run things.

>It denies objective reality in favor of warm platitudes.

The last word I would use to describe the right-libertarians I've known is "warm", unless "Kill 'em all, and let God sort them out" qualifies as a "warm platitude."

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jgghn t1_ivoq2vx wrote

Not always. But will agree that ever since the Tea Party the term has been coopted quite a bit. Like when you see a "Libertarian" talking about a strong military and wanting anti-abortion laws.

Just like anarchism there's a spectrum, and participants range from quite left to quite right.

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MoreGuitarPlease t1_ivornzk wrote

I agree with you. It’s too bad that hate has taken over.

As a vet, and an older white guy, I won’t even display my flag anymore. It’s a mark of the facist party now. I can’t beat to be associated with that.

Don’t tread on me is also great in spirit, but if I see that flag now, I know exactly what that person really means that it’s ok for him to tread on whatever he wants.

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jgghn t1_ivourw7 wrote

Exactly. I used to identify as a small-l libertarian and was registered as a capital-L Libertarian. Then I described myself as a "left leaning Libertarian". Then just "left leaning", and now "liberal".

Some of that was because I matured out of the Ayn Rand teenage mentality circle jerk, but most of it was the shifting of the Overton Window in our society & how that term has changed. I still hold opinions that'd make a Progressive cringe and vice versa, but more often than not we'll agree on the same What even if we don't agree on the Why.

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foxhagen t1_ivpkvya wrote

"Democracy In Chains" by Nancy McLean is alllll about the Libertarians. Really good book. And those people can get fucked.

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Simon_Jester88 t1_ivp5l5k wrote

Didn't used to be. Used to be socially liberal people wary of government spending. Recently the whackos have completely taken over. They were always there they've just gotten louder and taken over leadership roles.

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RealtorInMA t1_ivpwxhw wrote

My opinion, this "socially liberal" position was only ever a red herring. Like, oh I want all people to thrive, but I also want to withhold resources from those who most need them.

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Simon_Jester88 t1_ivpy8w3 wrote

I'd call the resources part much more of a fiscal issue.

Wasn't that long ago that even some Democrats didn't fully support gay marriage. Used to be only Libertarians fully advocating for it.

Really don't get your use of "red herring" in this context.

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RealtorInMA t1_ivpyssv wrote

Red herring because I think this framing is deliberately misleading. Trying to get good person brownie points without doing anything good. "I don't hate poor people, but I'm also happy to watch them die for a tiny tax break."

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Simon_Jester88 t1_ivq29yx wrote

Think you're kinda painting them as cartoon villains. A lot of Libertarians are just wary of government spending programs. Look at how much PPP was abused by corporations. Look at how many false unemployment claims were made during all of COVID. Our solution for fixing the T has been "throw more money at it with little oversight" and look how that's going.

Still don't know what you're talking about as misleading. William Weld was advocating for gay marriage while the likes of Clinton and Obama were to afraid to take a position on it. Democrats (some, not all, it's a big party) seem to only take up social issues such as drug reform and LGBT issues when its convenient for them.

I don't see a problem with being skeptical of where and to what degree the government should be involved in your life. It's the nuts who worship guns and think that things like roads should be ran by corporations though that have kinda turned me off of the party.

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RealtorInMA t1_ivq4dpi wrote

Yeah and you won't find me cheering for those types of democrats either. More of that party's electeds are trash than not, but there's not a party with a lower trash ratio, so I'm registered Dem. Doesn't mean I think it's a good party, just think the others are worse. I absolutely agree that we all need to scrutinize government spending, but there is a huge difference in approaching problems from a standpoint of, how can we improve the outcomes from government spending versus, how can we end government spending. Edit to add: also there has been a very clear libertarian to fascist pipeline in place for at least the last decade (most well known example is crying nazi Christopher Cantwell, but it's a common trend), so I think there's a case to be made that "social liberalism" isn't as crucial a component of the movement as they paint it as.

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Simon_Jester88 t1_ivq4s1t wrote

Well put

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RealtorInMA t1_ivq515d wrote

TY and apologies for adding an edit you may not agree with as you were complimenting the rest of my post. =)

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Simon_Jester88 t1_ivq5xgn wrote

No worries, you're right on point. The amount of alt-right/Libertarian muddling that has been going on is both confusing and concerning.

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binocular_gems t1_ivpuccu wrote

The Republican party has moved so far into wacko territory, that if you're identifying as a libertarian you have to really be nuts beyond the pale.

"The GOP is TOO mainstream for me!"

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