The Premise is the Plot Hole

Submitted by Many-Outside-7594 t3_ygtfeh in movies

Basically, the plot only happens because the hero of the story starts out in a place they would never realistically be.

The two major examples I have are The Specialist and The Running Man.

In The Specialist, Sylvester Stallone and James Woods go out on a mission together to stop some bad guys, and come to blows because Woods wants to >!blow up a bus load of kids for the lulz!<. It's supposed to play like a surprise face-heel turn.

But, we later learn that they had worked together for years, and in fact Woods was his mentor. In all that time, he never noticed his buddy was a villainous sociopath?

In The Running Man, Ben Richards is a pilot in the military sent to investigate a riot. >!The government orders him to fire on the crowd and he refuses!<, leading to his eventual arrest and the plot of the movie.

The rest of the movie makes it hilariously clear that this is an openly dystopian fascist state, with food riots and bloodsport on live TV.

He was literally flying a gunship for this government, but never noticed anything was amiss until now?

So basically neither one was in a place they would realistically be, given their later characterization.

Is there a name for this trope?

Are there any other examples out there?

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WarmMoistLeather t1_iuah6lc wrote

I would guess it's not the dystopian fascist state he has a problem with, having grown up in it and rose in the ranks of the group that keeps that state in power, but the shooting of unarmed citizens, which this must've been the first time he himself was ordered to do so. We know they suppress all news so it wouldn't be out of the question that Ben didn't know the murder of unarmed civilians was something that happened.

I took a look at The Running Man's TV Tropes but nothing jumped out at me as what you're looking for.

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SpringChikn85 t1_iuad71i wrote

You had me at, "The Specialist". Damn it if I didn't watch that on a loop the summer of my middle school years 😎 if I'm ever in a hurry or in a place where it's chaotic to pee (outside/side of the road/someone banging on the door etc.) I still catch myself quoting "fff***ckkk HoHkAy!!" in my best Antonio Banderas voice like when he's waiting for Sly in the tower 😆 great 90s movie. The "explosive teacup" is still the best yet ridiculous assassination bit ever.

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mdmnl t1_iuaioew wrote

You may be conflating The Specialist (Stallone, Stone, Steiger) and Assassins (Stallone, Moore, Banderas).

Both are absolutely terrific, silly, B-movies.

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SpringChikn85 t1_iugacd6 wrote

Dang it, you're right. Wait so Assasins was the one I'm thinking of however, the teacup kill was from the specialist right? Wasn't James woods the bad guy in the latter?

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mdmnl t1_iuh02r2 wrote

Yeah, teacup kill, James Woods are all The Specialist.

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NoHandBananaNo t1_iubmedg wrote

I just think of that as the plot version of a gimme.

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HorrorMovieFan45 t1_iue3zju wrote

I’m not sure if this is the same as what you’re looking for, but The Terminator relies on circularity to work. If Terminator hasn’t been sent back to stop John Connor from being born, there would never have been a terminator or a John Connor.

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Many-Outside-7594 OP t1_iueakgn wrote

That's more of a causality loop, what I was looking for grope. example of a hero being in a place they would never be in order to make the plot happen.

Looks like I have successfully stumped Reddit and discovered a new trope.

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HorrorMovieFan45 t1_iueosa4 wrote

I don’t think there is a name for what your describing. So I suppose you have discovered a new trope.

Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan might fit the bill. The plot hinges on some members of Starfleet going to the planet Ceti Alpha V thinking it is the planet Ceti Alpha VI.

We, as the audience, are supposed to believe that at a time when we have mastered stellar cartography and space travel is routine, our expert explorers wouldn’t notice that a whole planet blew up and is now missing.

I, and most fans, forgive this since it is overall such a great movie. But nevertheless the whole plot rests on this oversight that realistically would never happen.

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Many-Outside-7594 OP t1_iuf6ao9 wrote

These are two of my favorite movies.

I only got thinking about this because of a recent thread about prologues, and remembered how those two nagged at me over the years.

Wrath of Khan is actually a great example though.

It is possible to enjoy movies and discuss patterns and mistakes at the same time, especially when it is an unusual trope.

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Waste-Replacement232 t1_iuf543q wrote

Schindlers List requires you to believe that Oscar Schindler would have joined the Nazis, despite being a hero. PLOT HOLE.

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TheMeticulousNinja t1_iuas1dn wrote

In “The Room”, the plot holes are the premise

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My_Opinions_Are_Good t1_iuahb35 wrote

Buddy, just watch the fucking movie.

“pReMiSe iS tHe PlOt HoLe”

Jesus Christ.

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