Quirky_Butterfly_946 t1_j52udh6 wrote
This was on a post about a week or so ago.
Children should not have transition medication, surgery until they are adults if they still want it. Doing anything to minors is a form of abuse as they are incapable of processing any of this as well as make any decisions.
What I want to know is why the big push to get children to take such drastic measures?
CannaQueen73 t1_j549zl6 wrote
Circumcision should be stopped immediately then. Hypocrites.
PM_Georgia_Okeefe t1_j5548j5 wrote
There have been some bills that move to limit circumcision. I know one bill would not allow for Medicaid to cover it unless medically necessary.
ctr2sprt t1_j55h9p3 wrote
I love when this gets brought up like it's some sort of gotcha.
Yes, I agree. I don't think we should even allow a religious exemption.
ETA: Someone else mentioned not allowing Medicaid to cover it, which seems like a fantastic idea. Even if we did allow circumcision with a religious exemption, there's absolutely no reason that anybody else should ever have to pay for it.
CannaQueen73 t1_j55hod8 wrote
No gotcha. The same people saying children are being forced into transitioning are literally forcing a decision on an infant. Blatant hypocrisy.
BALLS_SMOOTH_AS_EGGS t1_j56mti0 wrote
Top story tonight: Are circumcisions changing the gender of our kids? More at 11
1carus_x t1_j5eipw2 wrote
Actually there's many examples of botched circumcisions where they force the boy to be a girl bc docs fucked up. It's still an unconsented to genital surgery on infants that permanently alters sensitivity
CannaQueen73 t1_j56nbpp wrote
Then no one can use the “making decisions for little kids” excuse. There’s no reason for it anyway.
smartest_kobold t1_j54moum wrote
Puberty creates a number dramatic bodily changes. Puberty blockers prevent a developing young person from going through a body changing in ways they do not want, may have to pay to reverse as an adult, and going through a second set of gender affirming changes. With all the trauma of those experiences.
Allowing children who are questioning their gender to delay that decision a few years with relatively safe medication is the better choice.
Mercantilean t1_j57kbku wrote
>Allowing children who are questioning their gender to delay that decision a few years with relatively safe medication is the better choice.
Yes, that would be a better choice if it was a real choice, but it's not. Delaying pubertal timing causes all kinds of musculoskeletal and cardiovascular issues.
Mrpgal14 t1_j57qc0m wrote
The major pediatric association in the country disagrees with you
Mercantilean t1_j57qx5i wrote
They disagree about the effects of delayed puberty? They disagree with settled science?
Mrpgal14 t1_j57rhf1 wrote
They disagree that it’s not a choice, they recommend puberty blockers for trans children, the settled science is that it’s an effective form of treatment.
youarelookingatthis t1_j55fa9f wrote
New Hampshire: live free or die, unless you're trans, then you need to suffer.
Just making sure I got your message right.
vexingsilence t1_j55qo9x wrote
Children aren't generally afforded the same rights as adults. They don't yet possess the mental faculties to make adult decisions.
youarelookingatthis t1_j55vjuv wrote
So you want children to suffer for years?
vexingsilence t1_j55wtox wrote
Versus being bullied or pressured into something they don't want and aren't yet able to recognize as such? That's why we call them children. They're not adults.
youarelookingatthis t1_j55x87w wrote
Evidence. Show me evidence cisgender children are being bullied into transitioning otherwise you're just wasting both our times.
vexingsilence t1_j55ybep wrote
youarelookingatthis t1_j55zk5b wrote
SEGM is a known anti transgender hate group, as is Genspect: https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7gg54/florida-transgender-healthcare-minors
​
https://www.caaps.co/rogd-statement
"As an organization committed to the generation and application of clinical science for the public good, the Coalition for the Advancement and Application of Psychological Science (CAAPS) supports eliminating the use of Rapid-Onset Gender Dysphoria (ROGD) and similar concepts for clinical and diagnostic application given the lack of rigorous empirical support for its existence.
There are no sound empirical studies of ROGD and it has not been subjected to rigorous peer-review processes that are standard for clinical science. Further, there is no evidence that ROGD aligns with the lived experiences of transgender children and adolescents.
Despite the lack of evidence for ROGD and its significant potential for creating harm, it has garnered increased attention in the general public and is being misused within and beyond the field of psychology. For example, recent medical articles have started including ROGD in their overview of adolescents with gender incongruence, and there has been an increase in books, videos, podcasts, and training directed to parents and clinicians offering strategies for diagnosing and treating ROGD. The proliferation of misinformation regarding ROGD is also infiltrating policy decisions. Currently, there are over 100 bills under consideration in legislative bodies across the country that seek to limit the rights of transgender adolescents, many of which are predicated on the unsupported claims advanced by ROGD. Thus, even though ROGD is not a diagnostic classification or subtype in either the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) or the International Classification of Diseases (ICD), nor is it under consideration for inclusion in future editions, it is critical to address the misinformation regarding ROGD now."
​
All of your so called evidence is easy to disprove and makes it obvious that you're cloaking your transphobia and hate in a made up concern over the mental faculties of children.
vexingsilence t1_j5614yg wrote
I trust the sources I posted a lot more than I trust Vice. Vice is trash, has been for a long time. They're an opinion site, nothing more, and their opinions always skew one way.
Wanting to protect children is not hate or any type of phobia. Once they're adults, once their minds are developed enough to be able to consent and be able to recognize peer pressure and the impact of constant exposure to social media, they're free to do what they want.
youarelookingatthis t1_j561vf8 wrote
Right. Because the NY Post is a bastion of journalistic integrity.
Wanting to stop transgender children from receiving the treatment they need is transphobia. It's really as simple as that.
vexingsilence t1_j562czd wrote
Wanting to pressure children down a path they're not responsible enough to be able to consent to is child abuse, simple as that.
youarelookingatthis t1_j562s2o wrote
Look, it's clear you don't want to listen to the science here and testimony from people who actually know what they're talking about, so we're done here.
vexingsilence t1_j563e66 wrote
I just posted some actual testimony. If you think children are old enough to consent to this type of thing, makes me wonder what else you want them to be able to consent to.
ExeCUTEive t1_j537j3w wrote
every1getslaid t1_j555035 wrote
Started reading this, will continue later. Thanks for the article.
[deleted] t1_j53fv5m wrote
[deleted]
the_messengers t1_j541us0 wrote
The 'science'? 🤣 You mean the cultural, educational, media, pop culture invoked, adolescent, pressure, to chop off their dicks and tits, conforming to some insane concept a man can be a woman, and a woman can be a man.....get the fuck outta here with crushing mental health issues being projected unto our most vulnerable.
WapsuSisilija t1_j52zjlz wrote
That you would prohibit puberty blockers shows you need to educate yourself on this.
mod-corruption t1_j53dhug wrote
The fact that you would allow puberty blockers for people who society hasn’t deemed old enough to smoke or drink shows that you need to educate yourself on the subject. There are no long-term studies on the risk/reward of puberty blockers. The idea that puberty can be paused and them resumed as normal is so laughably anti-science on its face. Maybe it’s time to accept that the people you disagree with actually have the wellbeing of children in mind and aren’t just being “transphobic”
1carus_x t1_j5646xf wrote
You realize these have been used for years prior to them being used for trans kids right? They are literally prescribed to those who expierence puberty too early, and once it's safe and of age to have puberty, they go off it it and resume their puberty. Years dude. Longer than I've been alive even, and no one minded then
Quirky_Butterfly_946 t1_j531a98 wrote
Children do not need puberty blocker for something that they do not even understand. It is highly reckless and abusive to prevent a child from developing as their body dictates. Gender dysphoria is a serious issue that does not mean they need to act on when they are children.
Those who would recommend a child to go through any procedure before they are adult do not have the child's welfare as their primary concern.
Again, why are people pushing for this?
Azr431 t1_j539kc1 wrote
When you get your Ph.D in child development or become a pediatrician, let’s talk
[deleted] t1_j53dmqb wrote
[deleted]
CannaQueen73 t1_j553nvj wrote
Do you have a son and is he circumcised?
[deleted] t1_j534adj wrote
Please cite your sources for this. You're using a lot of semi-lingo without anything but assumptions backing it up. I'm also afraid you'll find that the vast majority of the medical and scientific community is against you on this issue.
Number2_IsMy_Number1 t1_j535tc1 wrote
“Teenagers and young adults have the highest rates of suicide compared to other ages,” Dr. Fleisher says. “The things that make them vulnerable are where they stand socially and where they stand developmentally.”
Developmentally, their judgment and decision-making abilities are still coming online, he says. The prefrontal cortex — the brain’s executive control center — doesn’t fully develop until one’s mid-20s."
https://connect.uclahealth.org/2022/03/15/suicide-rate-highest-among-teens-and-young-adults/
[deleted] t1_j539atb wrote
[deleted]
CannaQueen73 t1_j553cfz wrote
You need to educate yourself before you keep speaking. Your opinions are just that.
ExeCUTEive t1_j537qrj wrote
Just curious why you think you know more than the folks who have dedicated their lives to this field? Educate yourself: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-the-science-on-gender-affirming-care-for-transgender-kids-really-shows/
[deleted] t1_j53c018 wrote
[deleted]
zetterbeauty t1_j53r83k wrote
Puberty blockers and hormone treatment aren’t permanent. If a patient chooses to de-transition or decide they no longer wish to transition, the effects are reversible.
[deleted] t1_j546yod wrote
[deleted]
zetterbeauty t1_j5521zi wrote
Why do you care if it's not you or your child taking them?
[deleted] t1_j53es1t wrote
[deleted]
[deleted] t1_j54hv97 wrote
[deleted]
asuds t1_j5eo80f wrote
Who lives with the consequences if they kill themselves? Can you not see this as the better of the two outcomes?
[deleted] t1_j5feo35 wrote
[deleted]
asuds t1_j5fvk4x wrote
Except that there is evidence that treatment helps reduce negative outcomes, so….
[deleted] t1_j5jw37j wrote
[deleted]
asuds t1_j5ld8ay wrote
No.
Yet, gender-affirming care is associated with reduced prevalence of suicide thoughts and attempts for those who receive the care they need.[1]
A recent study found that transgender adults who received pubertal suppression hormone therapy as adolescents were less likely to experience suicide ideation in their lifetime.[2]
Respondents to the 2015 USTS who have had the gender affirming hormone therapy or surgical care they need had lower prevalence of past-year suicide attempts compared to those who had not received the care they needed (5.1% vs. 8.5%); this difference persists even after controlling for race, age, sex assigned at birth, binary/nonbinary gender identity, and education.[3]
[1] What We Know Project. (2018). What Does the Scholarly Research Say about the Effect of Gender Transition on Transgender Well- Being? Ithaca, NY: Cornell University.
[2] 8 Turban, J. L., King, D., Carswell, J. M., & Keuroghlian, A. S. (2020). Pubertal suppression for transgender youth and risk of suicidal ideation. Pediatrics, 145(2), 68-76.
[3] 9 Herman, J. L., et al., 2019; Herman, J.L., Conron, K.J., Reisner, R., & Haas, A. (2017, November 9). Effect of gender transition-related health care utilization on suicidal thoughts and behaviors: Findings from the 2015 U.S. Transgender Survey. Paper presented by J.L. Herman at the Annual Meeting of the American Public Health Association, Atlanta,
Wiked_Pissah t1_j53wxfa wrote
Do you realize that most of those suicides happen because those bigot parents refuse to acknowledge that their child hates their body? They literally won't live long enough to get to "the age" you deem suitable for them to decide for themselves. Ask any LGBTQ adult when they felt they were Gay/Bi/Trans etc and almost all will say before they were adults. So by your logic, let's just let them feel tortured by bullies at school and hope they don't actually kill themselves as a result. Doesn't look like that has been working so well so far.
[deleted] t1_j54fze0 wrote
[deleted]
Educational-Eye4657 t1_j54u2p0 wrote
>I’m pretty sure most of us hated our bodies, felt tortured
And I'm pretty sure you've never experienced the level of bullying and hate that LGBTQ people face on a day-to-day basis. If you're for children having the right to live happily, then I also feel you must acknowledge that trans and gender-nonconforming adolescents have the highest rates of suicide and depression among any demographic. The decision on taking any potential treatment should be made by them in consultation with a qualified healthcare provider, not some random person on the internet who doesn't know their individual situation. In today's world, it is too easy for us to forget that individual liberty exists and needs to be protected. We cannot let legislation regulate every aspect of an individual's life because none of us are carbon copies of each other.
vexingsilence t1_j55rln7 wrote
>If you're for children having the right to live happily, then I also feel you must acknowledge that trans and gender-nonconforming adolescents have the highest rates of suicide and depression among any demographic.
Yes, they're mentally ill. They need treatment for their mental illness. Altering their body to support their disturbed thoughts while their brain is still developing isn't a good approach, you don't need a PhD to realize that.
​
>In today's world, it is too easy for us to forget that individual liberty exists and needs to be protected.
As adults. Until then, the health and safety of children must be protected.
Educational-Eye4657 t1_j55t517 wrote
No, they are not mentally ill, and science has confirmed that it is not an 'illness' issue but more of a social stigmatization of a very real and natural condition. Frankly, it's none of your business if you do not understand them or comprehend their condition and it's as simple as that. Some additional reading for you: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-48448804
vexingsilence t1_j55ufpl wrote
It's absolutely my business when it's in the public schools and affects people within my community. Child abusers would say the same thing, none of anyone else's business, right?
It's gender dysphoria, it's absolutely a mental illness.
Wiked_Pissah t1_j55ymp6 wrote
Spoken like a complete ignorant. Ask any gay person if they think being gay is a mental illness. I hope you get punched in the face for the question. Dysphoria happens more from someone not being supported to be themselves and think through their feelings, hence why the suicide rate is so high. I would hope a parent would live their child enough to be able to have an open, loving, and most importantly, non-judgmental conversation with their child if they were having these feelings. Not to automatically label them as mentally ill. This kind of naivety is exactly why mental health in this country is so bad. Just because someone has feelings or thinks different than you doesn't make them mentally ill. It just makes you an asshole.
vexingsilence t1_j560hsy wrote
>Ask any gay person if they think being gay is a mental illness.
Doctors used to define it that way, before changing not based on anything tangible, but due to pressure from the public.
​
> I hope you get punched in the face for the question.
Condoning violence towards people with opinions that you don't like. Nice.
​
>Not to automatically label them as mentally ill.
You're basically stigmatizing mental illness.
Wiked_Pissah t1_j562zrk wrote
I wouldn't expect you to understand. You have demonstrated your ignorance on the subject exceptionally well. But as someone who actually knows people that have been abused, bullied and looked down on by people like you, I would stand by them a 1000x over. As for the violence part, I have stepped in and stopped plenty of fights that were not started by the person I was defending. But rather by the hateful bigot that felt the need to push their views on other people.
vexingsilence t1_j563vdt wrote
>But as someone who actually knows people that have been abused, bullied and looked down on by people like you, I would stand by them a 1000x over.
That's a strange stance considering that you're proposing abuse to vulnerable people that aren't able to consent.
​
>But rather by the hateful bigot that felt the need to push their views on other people.
That's pretty much what I'm against. People who would force children into things they're not ready for.
Wiked_Pissah t1_j56n9xr wrote
And this is where your ignorance shines so brightly. If you actually knew anyone you claim to be protecting you would have an idea of just how backward your thinking is. No parent has ever said "Gee, I really wish I had a son I stead of a girl. I think I am going to make them suffer through a lifetime of mental trauma and force them to become a girl" This never happens. The child starts to question their identity. I loving and responsible parent listens to them and talks with the child about why they think that. Maybe even finding others that have gone through the same thing so they can talk it out together. No one is proposing abuse. Quite the opposite in fact if you actually read what I am saying and think with an open mind.
Yemu_Mizvaj t1_j55o9xf wrote
When I was a kid, i wanted to be a pilot, then i wanted to be a doctor, then i wanted to be a woodworker, then I started fixing cars. Now I'm back in school after wasting 4 years of my life in a shitty industry. Now I wish my parents forced me to go to school to become a pilot like I always wanted. Kids dont know what they want and neither do parents. You understand neither.
You can enter the military at 18 yet, you cant smoke or drink until 21 for a reason. Kids dont know what they're putting in their body but the military will raise them to be excellent soldiers and providers. Having worked in a shitty industry, I was still able to go back to school, being in the military has many benefits.
Chopping ur dick off or taking hormone pills at a young age is irreversible.
l337quaker t1_j59wthj wrote
You can't smoke or drink until 21 because the US has a bunch puritanical old fucks running things. Go pretty much anywhere outside the US and smoking/drinking age is 18.
Yemu_Mizvaj t1_j5afg9c wrote
Yes you're right, I was born in one of them. A high percentage of the population drinks and smokes there, weed is also illegal. Every country is run by a bunch of old fucks. Your point is?
Wiked_Pissah t1_j55zn3i wrote
Actually taking hormones is reversible. But intelligent people already know that every human has both estrogen and testosterone in their body. Yes you, the man with all kinds of life regrets. Even you have estrogen in your body. It's the predominance of one or the other that determines things like growing breasts or a penis. A man that takes estrogen therapy making it the predominant hormone in their body will grow breasts to a degree. Same way a woman taking testosterone will grow facial hair. And I don't know of a single medical professional in this country that would take to cutting off a child's punishment until they are a legal adult and can make the decision for themselves.
Yemu_Mizvaj t1_j57mdj1 wrote
"But intelligent people already know..." how anyone can tell they're speaking to an unintelligent person. If I'm an alcoholic from a young age, I lose brain cells early on in life. I also dont develop my brain in the same way nature adapted us to. Why would it be any different with hormone, mind and physique altering medications?
Hormonal changes and medications are know to change sex drives, desires and brain development. So this should be ok to do with kids because one day they decided being a man or woman was not their liking?
Why dont you give them meth since they realised it's easier to have dopamine than a happy life? Once they turn 18 sure, have all the meth and hormones u want, until then, you're risking a childs life based on a whim.
1carus_x t1_j564dfk wrote
You're right, infants should not be undergoing genital mutilations. Which is explcititly what this bill allows to occur.
asuds t1_j552exc wrote
Because among other things some children are born XXY or up to several other variations. Science yo!
1carus_x t1_j5eixo9 wrote
Funny how the "omg you're denying science" group is denying science regarding intersex babies
1carus_x t1_j563tii wrote
Why does it explcitity allows genital mutilations then? Doesn't seem to care much about the well being of children regarding sexual health when it explicitly allows abuse and mutilations to continue. Not touching the rest of that as you're clearly uneducated
Possible_Mud_4923 t1_j52yrj0 wrote
Well said
CocoTheElder t1_j532t6c wrote
I have to admit, i was against trans healthcare for minors, until I had to rush my own kid to er and found out how they felt about their body and sex at birth. That was 9 years ago. My kid is alive, has transitioned, and is now happy at age 25. I have totally changed my views. No one whose kid is not trans can truly understand how vital affirming Healthcare really is. Please, all of you, stay in your lane.
rudyattitudedee t1_j53pa94 wrote
I’m all for everybody being happy. I wanted real tattoos at 9 and I’m glad my parents didn’t allow it. Power rangers tats are probably out of style these days. If it makes the kid happy and they don’t regret it, good.
Beer_Pants t1_j54ky3n wrote
If you're still comparing healthcare supported by every medical authority of record to wanting a tattoo, that's probably a good indicator that you aren't actually arguing from a place of logic
rudyattitudedee t1_j54va55 wrote
I think you aren’t willing to read to understand. I’m not comparing healthcare to tattoos. I’m comparing decisions kids make that they eventually will grow up and regret. It can’t be a spur of the moment decision or a phase. Like I said, if the kids grow into a happy adult that’s what matters. I have a trans woman in my family. She waited until she was a teen, not so much by choice, but slowly started to do it, went to college and got a great job, then one day she just said “my name is Nicole now” and now she looks and feels great as a fully transitioned woman.
Beer_Pants t1_j54vk4a wrote
Good for her, just quit browbeating other trans people with concern trolling without evidence considering desistance is around 2%
rudyattitudedee t1_j56bfu6 wrote
Good to know. I’m not trying to troll anyone. I genuinely don’t know statistics. I think I’ve been constructive in my discourse but I can’t say the same for you.
Reddit_in_her_voice t1_j5367s7 wrote
You're saying only people who are for childhood trans surgeries can give an opinion about it?
ExeCUTEive t1_j538gqq wrote
That's not what he said at all! Can you read?
[deleted] t1_j53bum0 wrote
[deleted]
rudyattitudedee t1_j53pfa8 wrote
I worry about hormone blockers leading to increased rates of cancer or other complications that messing with a natural chemical balance can have.
zetterbeauty t1_j53r2hh wrote
Then don’t take them. Leave the decision otherwise up to the doctors, patient, and/or parents involved.
rudyattitudedee t1_j53sol9 wrote
I’m not taking them. I don’t have a problem with anyone doing so either. I’m just wondering what eventual side effects may be. Politicians don’t seem too worried about unclean drinking water causing cancer or other issues so…it’s interesting that some people actually try to prohibit this because it hasn’t been “studied enough”.
[deleted] t1_j57okmt wrote
[deleted]
Chappy_Sinclair_ t1_j530k2m wrote
My kid really, really wanted to be Thomas the Tank Engine when they grew up.
lantonas t1_j53ohf3 wrote
Should have put him on puberty blockers while he was retrofitted with wheels.
Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments