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magellan315 t1_ja5x9yc wrote

Reply to comment by [deleted] in Israelis, Palestinians pledge to curb violence at Jordan meeting by Hiversitize

Israel has faced repeated wars instigated by the Arab nations as well as terrorist attacks funded by those same nations. After the 1967 War Israel made an offer to return land in exchange for peace. The Arab response was 9 Arab nations met in Khartoum and declared that there would be no peace.

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[deleted] t1_ja5xh4u wrote

How does any of that force them to build illegal settlements in the sovereign land of another country

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Ed_Durr t1_ja8jv1o wrote

If you lose an aggressive war, be prepared to lose some of your sovereign land.

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[deleted] t1_jaakb46 wrote

That's certainly one narrative you could push.

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JoeShmoAfro t1_ja7nrt0 wrote

Are you talking about Jordan?

Jordan controlled the West Bank between 48 and 67. So it's Jordan who you must be referring to.

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MeatsimPD t1_ja85pmm wrote

> After the 1967 War Israel made an offer to return land in exchange for peace. The Arab response was 9 Arab nations met in Khartoum and declared that there would be no peace.

You keep posting this as if nothing has changed in the last 56 years.

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magellan315 t1_ja8qmcw wrote

Very little has changed in 56 years. Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, and Syria continue to fund terrorists in a proxy war against Israel. The PLO reneged on both the Dayton and Oslo Accords. After turning over Gaza and the West Bank to the Palestinians, the Palestinians engaged in suicide bombings which led Israel to build a border wall. Palestinian school text books teach children that Jews are subhuman and should be killed.

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MeatsimPD t1_ja8r3vk wrote

> After turning over Gaza and the West Bank to the Palestinians

When was the West Bank ever turned over to the Palestinians. I'm getting the clear sign you'll just sat whatever random bullshit you can if it sounds good in the moment

>Palestinian school text books teach children that Jews are subhuman and should be killed.

Man sounds like good reason not to build settlements outside of your country's sovereign borders and surrounded by Palestinians.

What's the justification for those settlements again? What's the justification for violating international law and annexing territory by force and settling your citizens outside of your sovereign borders

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magellan315 t1_ja8rkr6 wrote

>Man sounds like good reason not to build settlements outside of your country's sovereign borders and surrounded by Palestinians.

Sounds like a good reason not to trust the Palestinians, especially after the failure of the Oslo and Dayton Accords.

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MeatsimPD t1_ja8s4yx wrote

Again,

If you don't trust them why are you building settlements outside your state's sovereign borders, surrounded by them, and in violation of international law.

>What's the justification for those settlements again? What's the justification for violating international law and annexing territory by force and settling your citizens outside of your sovereign borders

Your lack of response is so telling, its like part of you knows there is no justification but you want Israel to have that land for some perverse reason

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magellan315 t1_ja8spi5 wrote

Territory C,.

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MeatsimPD t1_ja8t12p wrote

>Territory C,.

I think its clear you've given up on attempting to make an argument for Israeli's behavior after its been shown to be inconsistent bullshit.

Just say how you really feel, I'm guessing something like "Arabs and Palestinians attacked Israel and Israel has every right to do whatever it wants in the West Bank regardless what the people living there before their occupation want"

Just say it

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magellan315 t1_ja8ty6d wrote

Israel faces constant terrorist attacks they are making sure that all of its citizens are safe. I think you're making excuses for the Palestinians inconsistent bullshit and those of its Arab allies who fund terrorism.

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MeatsimPD t1_ja8us2j wrote

> Israel faces constant terrorist attacks they are making sure that all of its citizens are safe.

If they wanted to keep them safe, why are they allowing and encouraging them to settle outside Israeli's sovereign borders, beyond the security wall, and in very vulnerable locations?

>I think you're making excuses for the Palestinians inconsistent bullshit and those of its Arab allies who fund terrorism.

Oh the Palestinian authority government is an absolute disaster for the Palestinian people, and the funding of terrorism isn't helpful for anyone and certainly won't get Israel to withdraw from its illegally occupied territory.

Israel cannot be defeated militarily and its pointless and counter productive to try. Palestinians would be better served by following examples like Gandhi or Mandela in winning justice.

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magellan315 t1_ja8xuhx wrote

If any Palestinian tried to emulate Gandhi, Mandela, or Martin Luther King, Jr they would be dead in 30 days at the hands of their own people who have been believe that the only solution is the destruction of Israel. The same goes for Jordan, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia.

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MeatsimPD t1_ja8y7dz wrote

It is unfortunate that too many people on both sides believe the only way to resolve this is to destroy and kill the other

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magellan315 t1_ja91t6q wrote

It is a problem that the Palestinians and their Arab supporters feel that destroying Israel in spite of land for peace deals and the Oslo and Dayton Accords.

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waiv t1_ja5zm64 wrote

It's silly trying to portray Israel as a poor victim when they have dished as much as they have received, the 1956 and 1967 wars were started by Israel, plenty of incursions against Gaza and the West Bank before 1967, including blowing up whole towns and attacking the Jordanian army when the Jordanian King was on peace talks with Israel.

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magellan315 t1_ja7zn3v wrote

The 1967 War was due to the fact that multiple Arab countries were massing soldiers, air planes, and tanks near the Israeli border in battle formations, should they have waited to be attacked first? The peace talks through the U.N. failed and allowed the Arabs to stall for time.

Then of course there is the 1973, 6 day war, where the Arabs attacked on the most sacred day of the Jewish religion.

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waiv t1_ja8ifux wrote

Well, according to the American and Israeli intelligence back then Nasser wasn't going to take offensive action against Israel. There were no UN peace talks, there were going to be peace talks in Washington but the IDF attacked one day before the Egyptian envoy arrived.

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magellan315 t1_ja8n9n6 wrote

Nasser mobilized the Egyptian military, ordered U.N. Peacekeepers out of the Egypt, and closed the Straits of Tiran to Israeli ships. The closing of the Straits of Tiran was declared by President Lyndon Johnson to be "If a single act of folly was more responsible for this explosion than any other, it was the arbitrary and dangerous announced decision that the Straits of Tiran would be closed."

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waiv t1_ja8v4se wrote

Yeah, same peacekeepers who offered to be relocated on the Israel side of the border but were refused, if the Israeli government was really worried about Nasser attacking, why didn't they allow them to take new positions?

Meh, they were worse causus belli before and cooler heads prevailed, for instance the IDF invaded Jordan, destroyed a jordanian town and attacked their army in 1966 and that didn't led to war.

It's not like the blockade of a port that was barely used back then required an urgent action without resorting to diplomacy.

Anyway, seems silly to blame the Arab countries for all the wars when clearly Israel started at least half of them.

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magellan315 t1_ja8wh29 wrote

U.N. Peacekeepers are lightly armed and would have done nothing to stop the Egyptian military which was already massing on the border. In 1956 Egypt blocked the Straits of Tiran to Israeli ships. Egypt hadn't learned its lesson the last time.

Jordan had been a base of operations for the PLO who was engaging in terrorist attacks. The Israeli's sent a message to both parties about what would not be tolerated.

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waiv t1_ja8yc67 wrote

If by message you meant "war crime" and act of war, sure.

In the end Israel went Pearl Harbour against Egypt and then lied claiming they were attacked first, and since that didn't stick they started the narrative of "preemptive war".

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magellan315 t1_ja91eq8 wrote

The Arabs were led by their noses by the Russians who claimed Israel massing their military to attack the Arabs. The Arabs failed to do due diligence and double check. Unlike Pearl Harbor America was not preparing for war against Japan. The Arabs were in battle formations because they were going to attack. Should the Israeli's have waited for an impending attack.

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waiv t1_jacbfon wrote

So Egypt moved to the border not because they intended to attack Israel but because they thought Israel was going to attack Syria? Thanks for explaining, even less reasons to justify the Israeli attack.

Were they even in "battle formations"? They had been stationed there for three weeks doing nothing when Israel attacked treacherously.

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magellan315 t1_jacv60w wrote

Egypt failed to verify the information they had and yes the Arab troops were in battle formation. Are you saying Israel should have waited to be attacked by three large armies?

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