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usrevenge t1_jd6mh2v wrote

Too much dicking around and not enough action.

While the us has done a lot I hate the "we might and are going to eventually"

We are supposed to be the arsenal of democracy and my tax dollars paid for it so anything that is not classified and is already in Europe send it to Ukraine.

Send them out older fighters. Send them out older m1 abrams and Bradley's. If we realistically won't need them in the next 5 years and they are already outdated send them

Also send them the ammo they need

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CW1DR5H5I64A t1_jd76ydz wrote

>so anything that is not classified and is already in Europe send it to Ukraine.

That’s the issue, the Abrams we have in Europe with active duty units and the APS fleet have highly classified armor packages on them. Anything we send will need to be overhauled to use an unclassified armor material.

Additionally we are currently in the process of upgrading our existing Abrams to a new variant. The sequestration years a decade ago hit our armored units very hard and we had to skip/delay upgrades and depot level maintenance. That means a lot of our fleet is very old and for lack of a better term “tired”. A lot of the A2s in service with line units need major maintenance overhauls.

Sending the Ukrainians tanks which will have prolonged maintenance issues will not do them any good. Upgrading the MA1A1SAs probably coming from the Marines old fleet or the ones the 3ID turned in for replacement a year or two ago will be much better for them in the long run.

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taken_username_dude t1_jd7dchv wrote

IIRC 3IDs turn ins are currently being upgraded for the 2028 modernization (which is already very unlikely to hit target schedule)

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usrevenge t1_jd9mwrq wrote

We been talking about sending tanks for months.

How long does it take to throw any working m1a1 without anything classified on a ship and send it to Poland.

This could have honestly been a good rapid response scenario to train our logistics under. A hypothetical "we have nothing elsewhere in the world how fast could we help this area"

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CW1DR5H5I64A t1_jd9qfq6 wrote

The actual armor is classified.

It’s not like just taking out some computers or electronics or something. The armor on an Abrams is not one solid sheet of metal, it’s multiple layers of materials, including DU and ceramics. The composition of the armor package on the Abrams is classified and not something we share, not even with our closest Allies like the British, Canadians, or Australians. So they need to be re-built to remove the classified armor components and re-fitted with an unclass alternative.

It’s is a major overhaul.

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Folsomdsf t1_jd7lruk wrote

You are talking out of your rear as well, Ukraine ordered NEWLY BUILT units.

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CW1DR5H5I64A t1_jd7oey6 wrote

> The new plan calls for refurbishing tank hulls already in the U.S. arsenal.

Read the article, it’s saying the US is going to send refurbished M1A1 hulls now.

I was replying to a comment saying we should send the existing M1A2 stock that is currently in Europe and am saying that is not an option because they would need to be overhauled anyway.

Also even “new build” tanks rarely if ever are built from scratch. They usually strip an existing hull and re-build it.

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Dreadedvegas t1_jd7rtre wrote

The US ordered new units for Ukraine but has no reversed course and will be sending mothballed M1A1s that were originally slated for modernization in order to speed delivery from 3 years to this year

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Folsomdsf t1_jd7llcs wrote

>Too much dicking around and not enough action.

My dude, they're building NEW tanks. That's what Ukraine bought, they have no training on them, why there was no rush, but also the Abrams is such an easy tank to use that once ukraine found the ability to free up some crews FOR training they want to use them immediately.

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diefreetimedie t1_jd6vu0x wrote

Assuming you're from a monetarily sovereign nation, Your tax dollars are deleted after payment and any new spending from the federal government is currency created by the federal government. Limited only by real resources; materials, logistics and labor.

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