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GaiusJuliusPleaser t1_ithmf23 wrote

Gotta love Russian propaganda. First you threaten with nuclear weapons, then you suggest the Ukrainians will use nuclear weapons to make you look bad.

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t4ct1c4l_j0k3r t1_ithmyv2 wrote

We really need Putin to have a major stroke, heart attack, aneurysm, Caesar style going away party, something. The minute he is out of the way this all de-escalates in a hot minute. I would not expect his successor to pursue any of this.

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Freexscsa t1_ithnlo9 wrote

That's why they've been evacuating regions. Russia's going to bomb their own people. I hope all those separatists are prepared to take one for the team.

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passinghere t1_ithov0t wrote

Guess that means Russia has a dirty bomb they intend to explode and blame it all on Ukraine then.

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mymar101 t1_ithp66w wrote

Just curious, but what exactly is the right provocation for a "dirty bomb?"

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mrkevrd t1_ithpdjx wrote

Russia and Trump are synonymous with lying. False flag obviously.

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xyzain69 t1_ithpxnf wrote

Putin is the most frustrating human alive today

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Due-Ad-7308 t1_iths38o wrote

Replying to passinghere (#192,199)

Seems much more likely than a tactical nuke tbh. Tactical nukes are for a military that wants to gain some sort of advantage, DB's are much more in line with their goal of indiscriminate genocide and would also be a much easier narrative to sell domestically as opposed to trying to convince people that Ukraine was handed nuclear weapons.

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malphonso t1_iti6snf wrote

Replying to OneMustAdjust (#192,952)

Or Kherson since they're pulling their best trained troops out and leaving only mobilized conscripts behind to cover the retreat. Sacrifice the conscripts to the dirty bomb and keep Ukrainian troops from entering the city to pursue the retreat.

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Dfiggsmeister t1_iti9dvf wrote

Replying to mymar101 (#192,216)

Not having working nuclear missiles because your oligarchy sold off the parts to other countries for profit, but you already told the world that nuclear war was eminent so you create dirty bombs in place of your own incompetence.

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ichii3d t1_iti9ra4 wrote

The thing I struggle to view is how nuclear munitions are transported, especially if things are more tactical. Like using an nuclear artillery shell. I imagine that's not just lumbered in with other rounds and would have a special team around it to handle it?

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GirlNumber20 t1_itibi42 wrote

Give the U.S. military an excuse, Russia. Go on. Do it. Your hateful little hobbit will rule as king of the ashes from a Ural Mountains bunker and the rest of you will blow away like dust.

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ataw10 t1_itihkm7 wrote

Replying to OneMustAdjust (#192,952)

*blinks in worry* WHAT THE FUCK! it just occurred to me , what exactly did they take form that exclusion zone back to Russia ? ahh fuck did they dig in the red forest to get dirt bomb material .... ?

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engineeringataraxia t1_itij2zg wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#192,360)

Yeah, if you ignore Russia's multiple false flags to keep putin in power, zelinski's reluctance to use nuclear weapons and how it would jeopardize his admittance to nato, Putin's threats to use nuclear poliferation, and the end results for Ukraine joining nato, sure. Are you a Russian propagandist or just stupid?

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mysticalfruit t1_itilh65 wrote

Replying to passinghere (#192,199)

Remember, this isn't about Russia gaining territory.

Ukraine just wouldn't roll over and give up 30% of their land, so Russia is now going to show the world what happens to border countries that don't capitulate to their demands.

This is what happens when you've got an autocratic dictator in charge, there is no path to deescalation.

Putin is losing this war and as hard has he's tried to hide it, he can't. Few dictators survive failed wars, so he now needs to seriously amp up the situation.

He'll set off a dirty bomb, claim it was the Ukrainians and use that as an excuse to use tactical nukes on all their infrastructure.

We had to nuke their power plants, how else could we prevent them from setting off more bombs.

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Beard_o_Bees t1_itilqn5 wrote

Replying to ichii3d (#193,546)

Ostensibly, for any kind of legit nuclear munition, there's a pretty strict chain of custody - which is why terrorists haven't managed to get one (we hope).

For the 'dirty bomb' - i'm actually kind of surprised that one hasn't ever been used. Just access to some sort of radio-nucleotide, like what's used in medical imaging equipment and explosives.

It would be pretty far-fetched for Russia to claim that Ukraine would explode such a weapon on their own soil - or even on Russian soil, I think.

Then again, Russia has been getting their asses handed to them on the battlefield, and you just know that Putin is the kind of psycho that would rather watch the world burn than admit any kind of defeat.... pretty touchy situation for a country that has access to the full rainbow of real nuclear weaponry.

I can only hope that there's some kind of plan within the Russian government/military to take him the fuck out before it goes that far.

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mysticalfruit t1_itilwy4 wrote

Replying to ataw10 (#194,032)

You'd have to refine that. Those hapless fools dug into ground that was laden with radioactive particles.

Unfortunately, Russia has plenty of spent fuel and other radioactive crap they can cram into a bomb housing.

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mysticalfruit t1_itim9p5 wrote

Replying to t4ct1c4l_j0k3r (#192,074)

It does beg the question. If he gave the command to use nukes, would his order actually be followed?

I wonder if this dirty bomb bullshit is to give his subordinates something to be stirred up about.

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ataw10 t1_itimdeu wrote

Replying to mysticalfruit (#194,333)

im between there dumb as a rock an they took the dirt from Ukraine for it to be believable but than im back to they are not that smart , thats like 20 tiers above there thinking level.

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passinghere t1_itimg4u wrote

Replying to mysticalfruit (#194,296)

This is fully what I'm expecting, especially from a dictator that's got a known history of using false flag attacks to benefit himself IIRC didn't he get in to power by killing a load of Russians with a bomb?

Not to forget the false flag attacks just before the Ukraine invasion, such as the Russian truck and the building (both miraculously empty) that had explosions in / beside them before he finally started the "special operations"

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isawagoose t1_itimmye wrote

Replying to Due-Ad-7308 (#192,403)

>Tactical nukes are for a military that wants to gain some sort of advantage

Ok, but they do actually want to do that. They aren't exactly holding their ground in their annexed territories.

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t4ct1c4l_j0k3r t1_itio6rk wrote

Replying to mysticalfruit (#194,371)

Well that really all depends on who is in the bunker when the order is given. Russian commanders do, or at least used to, have some autonomy in this regard to make the decision to launch after given a launch order by leadership.

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gravescd t1_itiq7ph wrote

Replying to ichii3d (#193,546)

Based on what we've seen from the Russian army so far, I expect such a weapon will absolutely be packed in with other stuff that looks similar, discovered by some luckless soldier from a backwater without working toilets, then sold on the black market in Belarus for a carton of cigarettes and a poorly forged EU-nation passport.

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gravescd t1_itirli6 wrote

Replying to Beard_o_Bees (#194,314)

Makes you wonder if it's possible that the complete shitshow of Russian politics right now is itself a deterrent against coups. Like, who would actually want to take this hot turd out of Putin's hands? It would be an act of either saintly altruism or megalomaniacal delusion.

That said, who knows if Putin is actually the trigger man in such an operation. If he really wants it happen, the order could be given well in advance and require no more input from him or anyone else in a sensitive position. For all we know, Putin's death could be the contingency that greenlights a nuclear attack. And I'm very doubtful that the entire chain of command will just stop caring about Ukraine. As much as we like to think Putin is pulling everyone's strings, wars just do not happen without enthusiastic obedience all the way down.

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sundial64 t1_itirris wrote

If Russia pulls this stunt then I think all gloves are off.

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CritaCorn t1_itism0l wrote

Putin already killed his own citizens with a series of massive apartment bombings.

They stopped when a women found military grade explosives pilled high up next to her car in her apartment parking lot.

Government claimed it was an “exercises” but after that…no more bombings.

Putin very well might do this again with a nuke on his own people in a pathetic attempt to unify its citizens

I just hope the Russian people aren’t this stupid b/c the support for the Ukraine war (pre draft) was much much higher than previously thought amongst its citizens.

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oldkook1963 t1_itiyufc wrote

Dirty bomb? Moscow gonna get a nuclear warhead up their ass.

3

madbirdribdam t1_itj164x wrote

Replying to GaiusJuliusPleaser (#192,038)

It feels like they had two different types of propaganda: one — for the internal consumer (“we’re going to nuke them”), the other — for the external (“they’re going to nuke us”). It was pretty obvious 5-10 years ago, but now the information spreads too fast, and the war mixed up everything, so they can’t keep audiences of these two narratives apart from each other anymore.

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Peanut_007 t1_itjjtbk wrote

Replying to fullup72 (#196,911)

Even if he somehow pulls out a win, which seems pretty damn unlikely at this point, then he's just going to end up with the insurgency from hell immediately after. The Ukranians are a country of 40 million people, mostly indistinguishable from ethnic Russians on sight, have close to a million trained and heavily armed soldiers, a substantial chunk of them speak fluent Russian, and they share a border with Poland.

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TrueMoose t1_itjp3q4 wrote

Replying to sundial64 (#194,833)

Idk, you think? I mean, I do a little. I feel like humans with our morality, emotions, and x, y, z, would respond in full with gracious payloads... but I also see a divergent possibility of: No nuclear retaliation for the betterment of the future, and instead, ground war. A darker alternative would be no nuclear retalitation, AND no military retaliation to further more Russian-strikes. Which, again, is the darker route because we essentially let evil win, and take what they want because, "nuke".

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FlyingFlipPhone t1_itjt8af wrote

I'm trying to figure out the endgame for a dirty bomb. Obviously, the land would be useless for a certain number of years (depending upon the radioactive element). Different elemental isotopes have different half-lives and different radioactive emissions. As we have seen, Chernobyl is STILL uninhabitable. Would Russia purify a Radon bomb? This would have a much shorter "radioactive decay chain" with a much shorter decay schedule. Let's assume that this "purified" bomb would be leave the land contaminated for 1 year. I still don't understand the endgame!

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grinbearnz t1_itjxalw wrote

please for the love of god. don't do it. we all just want live peaceful lives. I really don't want to be drafted into ww3 to be shredded by a drone I cant see.

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supaloopar t1_itjz81g wrote

If Russia wanted to make this point, couldn't they have just blown up the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant and blame the Ukrainians?

Instead, it's being safely powered down.

I don't get it. Why go through the trouble of transporting and expending one warhead and then having to live with the subsequent radiation wasteland?

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Explorer335 t1_itk40kp wrote

Keep in mind Ukraine's enormous agricultural exports. A dirty bomb could contaminate huge swaths of land, making it unsuitable for growing food. That could lead to food shortages all over the world.

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Due-Reading6335 t1_itk4geq wrote

Going to be honest. Im trying to not sound like a doomsday prepper. But unless pooter dies, this war will continue and escalate into something worse. I'm really trying to stay hopeful that ww3 wont be in 2023

3

DavidHewlett t1_itk52lq wrote

Replying to passinghere (#194,380)

His FSB buddies were caught planting bombs in apartment buildings after several identical devices already exploded and killed many.

Russians responded by making him dictator for life and destroying Grozny.

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passinghere t1_itkp7oa wrote

Replying to DavidHewlett (#199,579)

> Independent investigations have faced obstruction from the Russian government.

Says it all really. Cannot have daddy Putin being officially blamed and the facts being known.

Clearly shows that the lives of others have never meant anything other than a means to power for him.

Plus that number of deaths was just the start of the amount slaughtered during the air bombing of Grozny and the Second Chechen War, he's nothing other than a sick mass murderer all for his own benefit

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ZeroAfro t1_itkpsh9 wrote

You mean a false flag operation like the one Putin used to secure himself as the leader of Russia?

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RogueM99 t1_itksexm wrote

Replying to FlyingFlipPhone (#197,708)

my personal opinion is that he is trying to goad nations into a war, in order for others who back Russia to join in with the hopes of making a quick and crippling attack against the biggest players and establishing their side as the ruling order in the world.

Almost like the countries behind these agitations already have everything set and ready, waiting for the right time to press the button. In the end you don't want to be seen as the sole perpetrator of this transition but rather make it feel like the natural order after the dust settles, hence enticing more people to go along and squash most revolts and agitators against the new order from the get go.

No proof, just what my crazy mind sees as a possible driver after reading and watching all of this unfold.

−3

Jim_from_GA t1_itkylva wrote

Replying to mysticalfruit (#194,333)

The point of a dirty bomb is that you don't need to refine the Uranium, just blow the junk into smithereens and let people deal with radioactive fallout. The big benefit of using Chernobyl or any other Ukrainian sourced waste is that the signature will certainly be traceable to Ukraine. If they used Russian waste, there is a chance that it could be pegged to Mother Russia.

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Jim_from_GA t1_itkz5di wrote

I heard on Blumberg that the Ukrainians were reporting that the Russian commanders were seen pulling out of one of the regions and leaving the conscripts and mercs behind to hold the line. That would be my guess for where they will set it off.

If/when they prove it was Russia and not Ukraine that killed all those fresh draftees, it is going to get messy in the Motherland.

1

mysticalfruit t1_itkzoc7 wrote

Replying to Jim_from_GA (#200,439)

By refining I meant to extracting the dust particles from the soil around chernobyl.

Just picking up 2 tons of dirt around chernobyl wouldn't do much.

Unfueling a reactor and then using explosives to turn it into mist would be bad.

2

flatline000 t1_itl093k wrote

Replying to mysticalfruit (#194,296)

>so Russia is now going to show the world what happens to border countries that don't capitulate to their demands.

I guess that's what Russia is thinking, but the rest of the world is watching Russia get its butt kicked by NATO's hand-me-down weapon systems and reading reports on how Russia's economy is getting crushed by sanctions...what will Russia even look like in 10 years because of this war?

2

mysticalfruit t1_itl3a46 wrote

Replying to flatline000 (#200,591)

Honestly, probably the shrinking of Russia.

I can see lots of border regions saying, "why do we want to be tied to this clown and becoming breakaways.

Russia's military completely decimated unable to stop them.

Moreover those regions asking for and getting military aid from us.

3

BoltgunOnHisHip t1_itlbbqi wrote

Replying to mysticalfruit (#194,296)

You don't use tactical nukes on infrastructure. He'll use them on troop concentrations, especially if they try to retake Crimea. The only access to the peninsula is a tiny choke point, and Ukraine would have to mass its troops there since going in piecemeal would result in the Russians cutting them apart piecemeal, and despite the Russian navy's poor performance, Ukraine doesn't have the ability to mount a naval invasion.

Attacks on infrastructure (theoretically) employ full scale weapons. You want to make it as hard as possible to repair if you hit that point, and there's no reason to hold back.

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halberthawkins t1_itlohhy wrote

This seems like a "he who smelt it dealt it" situation. ( The smellers being Russia)

0

No_Discipline_7380 t1_itlwagf wrote

Replying to ichii3d (#193,546)

Yeah, it's not the kind of thing that usually goes unnoticed. American surveillance probably catches a lot of such movements, I doubt Biden starting giving ultimatums out of the blue...

1

BoltgunOnHisHip t1_itm0c0r wrote

Replying to mysticalfruit (#204,009)

The trick here is that the civilian population of Crimea is largely culturally Russian. Not that I think that gives Russian any special claim to the place, but it does make the civilians there (seemingly) more compliant. If Russia starts blasting them with cruise missiles and shit that could change really quickly.

So currently Crimea's in this kind of limbo where the status quo is unlikely to change.

0

BLRNerd t1_itnep8d wrote

Replying to RogueM99 (#199,912)

There's been an increasing number of people here in the states that want them at a table/Ukraine to give in to Russian demands, especially Conservative

If a dirty bomb does go off, right before a crucial election in the States, it's going to play right into Republicans' hands, a group that is already in bed with Putin

1

TrueMoose t1_itnt44b wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#200,433)

Is there any update on this? I've been anxious all effing day. But for real though... any? I haven't been this stressed about the "Putin/Nuke" situation for hot-second

1

Jim_from_GA t1_itpp70m wrote

Replying to mysticalfruit (#200,550)

If it were me, I would not waste my time with either of those approaches. I would either get some highly contaminated piece of equipment that had been used near the core or an actual spent fuel rod from the cooling basin and use that. Either choice would provide what is needed without nearly the work at the level that you are thinking.

Either way, yes, it sounds like I overread your initial post.

1

iHeartSpam671 t1_itql12l wrote

Replying to TrueMoose (#197,388)

Sadly ground war would still result in nuclear conflict. Once NATO gets involved, it's over. If the Orcs thought they were facing setbacks, NATO would decimate Russian forces on a level not seen since Tannenberg 1914. Entire fronts would surrender en masse once word got out that they were about to go up against NATO forces. The groundwar in Ukraine would likely end within 96 hours as the Russian army would collapse and flee for their lives, as they certainly know that the Ukrainians will take no prisoners. Putin would almost certainly try to stop this full-on rout using his tactical nukes. At which NATO would be compelled to retaliate in kind. Sadly, because Putin is such a pathetic cretin, he will never accept defeat. His strategy of "escalate to de-escalate" is entirely in line with this dirty bomb idea. The Ukrainians have made it clear they will never submit, but so did the Japanese in WWII. That's Putin's plan; escalate to the usage of nuclear weapons to the point that Ukraine gives up out of self-preservation.

1

S3guy t1_itvzo52 wrote

Replying to BoltgunOnHisHip (#201,935)

Meh, most of those that stayed are traitors and openly support the Russians. Let them suffer the consequences of their shitty decisions. If Ukraine takes it back, give em a choice between working in prison camps or departing for russia forever.

0