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HaloGuy381 t1_iugbnez wrote

Reply to comment by Most_Ruin_3005 in Richard Branson declines invitation to debate death penalty with Shanmugam, says TV format 'turns serious debate into spectacle' by chronoistriggered

My father this evening proposed while talking about death penalty at dinner, to execute people in a manner mimicking to their crimes. I pointed out that by that sort of logic, then, he should be willing to foot the tax bill. He said something like “of course, better use of my money than these programs”, I countered that, say, terrorists who helped those who crashed a plane into a building, being executed that way, would be absurdly expensive, and he called -me- ridiculous. Um… what?

If you have to execute someone, make it quick and clean. It’s more affordable for the taxpayers/voters, it’s easier on those doing the executing, and it leaves the body presentable for the family to have closure. Better yet, don’t rely on the death penalty when convictions can be incorrect and catch the wrong person.

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Most_Ruin_3005 t1_iugk8x7 wrote

I posit that we shouldn't be executing anybody, regardless of the gravity of their crimes. We cannot grow, as a society and a species, if we cannot collectively control our most base instincts for hate and violence.

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QuintoBlanco t1_iugliqg wrote

If somebody kills somebody I love, I want the killer dead.

But my personal desire for revenge should not be how society functions.

It seems that many people cannot make that distinction.

And we can see the problem when people are being executed for drug related offences.

Or for having extramarital sex...

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Most_Ruin_3005 t1_iugmnbv wrote

Precisely. We should strive for society to not be how we are, but how we should be. The society we are a part of should be better example of empathy and reason than than any of it's individual members might be capable of; it must be grester than the sum of it's parts.

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busmans t1_iugej0c wrote

Eye-for-an-eye style punishment is extremely cruel, but beyond that, you don’t ever have to execute someone. It is cheaper to let them live in the system.

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sjfiuauqadfj t1_iugh3mu wrote

the cost associated with executions in america largely comes from not doing them in a timely manner because they legally can do a lot of appeals before they actually get executed. in a perfect world where 100% of the people who are executed absolutely did it, those appeals would not be necessary and it would be very cheap to execute a prisoner

in china its also pretty cheap to execute because they arent as lenient as we are, and they also charge the family of the person being executed for the cost of the bullets

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grovbroed t1_iugj2ff wrote

>they also charge the family of the person being executed for the cost of the bullets

Holy shit. China doesn't have free social executions?

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kia75 t1_iugne09 wrote

You're taking your father at his word. The truth is, your father doesn't care about what he says he cares about, they're just words to justify his stances.

As you've just pointed out, your father really doesn't care about government spending. If he really cared about government spending then he would want to spend as little as possible to execute someone. Instead, he's fine with spending exorbitant money to execute someone, and he'd prefer to use the money currently going to "these programs" to be spent on execution. Your father's stances and arguments aren't congruent, and no budgetary argument (i.e. Every dollar spent on welfare have a multiplier effect on society, spending money on a starving kid so that he becomes a productive member of society results in that kid growing up and paying taxes, much higher taxes then were spent on him, while if that same kid instead receives no help and thus becomes a crook and winds up in prison, would become a drain on society and much much more of his money would be spent on that kid)

I don't know how to change your father's mind, but I do know fighting the wrong arguments will never work since it's just justification for his actual beliefs.

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HaloGuy381 t1_iugrcqo wrote

I don’t expect to change his views. I just find it helpful to remind myself I’m not crazy, and at his core my father is kind of a bigoted, unempathetic monster, even if my mother is the more pressing concern in terms of being a shitty parent and person. When they at least feign politeness and decency so well, it’s easy to start wondering if you’re the one who’s nuts. Poking him with a simple argument that basically boils down to being willing to pay top dollar to make people suffer, even if it would involve a hit to our quality of life from the expense, is one way to do that. It’s funny he thinks I find the political BS rants from them uncomfortable for being political, when in reality I just have no desire to listen to regurgitated Fox propaganda all day. I’m decidedly political, it’s just that after finding out about the mocking behind my back after the 2016 election from them (correctly) presuming I voted Clinton, I voice my beliefs with caution.

I figured it out unambiguously with the whole incident involving the BLM protests in 2020. Hearing your own father claim Trump was being too lenient and should have firebombed them by the block, is deeply disturbing, especially after he got an AR-15 and handguns last year. (And that in spite of my chronic fight with suicidal tendencies; at least he has the sense to keep them in a safe,with the key being hard to locate being why I’m typing this and alive).

And now we’re in a town in Texas with a monument to the Confederates next to the county courthouse, where I’ve seen pro-Confederate demonstrators marching openly and with minimal opposition. Where random strangers openly discuss anti-vax conspiracy theories as if genuine fact. It’s nuts out here, and speaking freely feels hazardous.

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Belchera t1_iuk49ef wrote

You aren’t crazy, you’re right. I’m sorry you’re going through that. Just know that the whole world hasn’t gone mad, even if it may seem that way. There is hope out there along with love and compassion.

Stick around so that those seem a little more common.

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