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[deleted] t1_j16blhj wrote

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malphonso t1_j16w7vc wrote

Their pursuit was in direct violation of department policy, and they lied about it when questioned. That may have affected charging decisions.

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astanton1862 t1_j16y83q wrote

To me, those are all crimes, but I don't see second degree murder. Seems like a textbook case of involuntary manslaughter.

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RIP_BEARS t1_j171mri wrote

Yeah this case is ripe for appeal and them winning. Lying and violating policy are grounds for termination, and possibly some relatively minor criminal charges if their jurisdiction has a law against officers lying, but those in themselves don't create criminal culpability for other crimes. Civil liability? They would get smoked/will get smoked in civil court. Second degree Murder which under DC code requires proving the accused has the intention to kill or harm? Not so sure.

We will see how it plays out.

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r3rg54 t1_j1atmw8 wrote

> proving the accused has the intention to kill or harm

This isn't required for second degree murder in DC, though it would be enough. It would also count if there is sufficient recklessness.

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RIP_BEARS t1_j1ayj6y wrote

Whoever with malice aforethought, except as provided in §§ 22-2101, 22-2102, kills another, is guilty of murder in the second degree. For purposes of imprisonment following revocation of release authorized by § 24-403.01(b)(7), murder in the second degree is a Class A felony.

Any definition of malice aforethought, whether Blacks or general definitions, has intention as an element.

A good example of this would be George Floyd; whether he intended to kill him or not, that officer intentionally committed the act/applied the force (the knee on back, etc) that led to the death. In this case though, they aren't the ones who applied the force or action that killed him. Seems much more like a matter of involuntary manslaughter, though I don't know the statutes for that, so I'm guessing.

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[deleted] t1_j17unul wrote

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rascal_red t1_j183zyy wrote

I fail to see how lying about policy violations is not lying during a criminal investigation.

Also, the idea that every crime/degree requires proof of malicious intent to do criminal harm is fiction.

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FrankSinatraYodeling t1_j19jjnn wrote

How does lying about policy violations escalate a charge to 2nd degree murder?

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rascal_red t1_j19litq wrote

I never said that? At least in this case, but since you ask, that would depend on the exact violations and reasons why.

Moreover, normal people can be charged for lying in the course of an investigation-why should that not apply to police of all people?

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FrankSinatraYodeling t1_j19ntb0 wrote

It should apply to police, but how does that elevate a charge to 2nd degree murder when it doesn't to normal people?

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rascal_red t1_j19on0d wrote

Again, I did not say that. What I said was that lying about policy violations in the course of an investigation IS criminal-even if prosecutors avoid charging the police, as they prefer to do.

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r3rg54 t1_j1ateav wrote

In DC second degree murder includes homicide where the person committing it possesses "reckless indifference to an unjustifiably high risk to human life"

They do not necessarily need to intend to kill the person.

Is there a reason you think this wouldn't count?

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astanton1862 t1_j1ayr6k wrote

From my understanding, the unjustifiably high risk is something like I decided to speed the wrong way on the highway. Involuntary manslaughter is where it is possible but not likely like I would think is this case.

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dern_the_hermit t1_j16du2o wrote

> killed in a crash of his own doing.

Would he have crashed if the police hadn't given chase?

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[deleted] t1_j17votx wrote

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FrankSinatraYodeling t1_j19jzv7 wrote

It's kind of a dumb comment, but it does stumble on an interesting question. If a DC police officer initiates an inappropriate traffic stop and the subject of the stop is injured by hitting his head in this manner, are police officers then vulnerable to 2nd degree murder charges?

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