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BruceRee33 t1_iz1ki3i wrote

Reply to comment by AggressiveSkywriting in Hackers linked to Chinese government stole millions in Covid benefits, Secret Service says by Marco280892

I honestly don't get why some people are genuinely butt-hurt about the principle of student loan forgiveness. Would the same people believe so strongly in paying back their own debts if given a chance to get out from under it? I've always believed that it's better to wish well for people when a blessing comes their way, not sit there and cry about how it didn't happen to me lol

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AggressiveSkywriting t1_iz1o2ne wrote

I think a lot of it boils down to a few things (these are viewpoints I've run across several times):

  • People not understanding just how predatory the rates are on student loans compared to, say, your mortgage or car payment. This leads to false comparisons and low hanging fruit talking points. My car payment was never going to balloon up into something insane. My home loan is linked to a tangible asset used literally every moment of my life for the next X years and I was fully aware of the "end price" I'd be paying when I signed the mortgage.

  • People who did not attend college who have felt or experienced being looked down on by the college educated. This is either them seeing people who have more privileged lives than themselves getting even MORE help OR this is them sticking it too the college grads (because we are cruel beings).

  • People who took out loans for college and were able to pay them off or recently paid them off lashing out in envy. "I had to sacrifice and do this, why not them? Their life should be as difficult as mine was."

  • People who don't get how taxes or govt budgets work and think they will see a line item on their tax bill that says "-Free Money for Pink Haired Girl With Art Degree"

Most of them don't realize that the loan forgiveness (and also reworking a broken tuition system) will benefit the economy itself, and thus themselves as well. They don't see that there are people who have it just as bad as them with this debt who are being crushed by it and can never discharge it. They just view them as competitors.

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BruceRee33 t1_iz1yrwf wrote

Thank you for that reply, those are all very reasonable and great points.

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Deathblo t1_iz23jsm wrote

If they payback student loans they better give all us poor fucks that had to work out of highschool a chance to go for free because that is some bullshit.

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AggressiveSkywriting t1_iz2bc90 wrote

My state offers free 2 year college and it's a backward-ass state. 20 states so far have similar programs.

And remember something here: almost nobody who is getting forgiveness is getting "free college." Some of us have been paying on these loans for a LONG time. Some will still have 10-15 years more to pay on them even after 10k is taken off.

Plenty of people who went to college were "poor fucks" who had to work out highschool. My wife is one of those people. Plenty of people out there who took out loans but never finished college and are busting their asses working "poor fuck" jobs while ALSO having massive debt from the student loans that never amounted to any degree.

It's not quite the "free ride" you think it is.

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Cfp0001-Iceman t1_iz3vi8s wrote

> People who did not attend college who have felt or experienced being looked down on by the college educated. This is either them seeing people who have more privileged lives than themselves getting even MORE help

This is it largely for me. I mean, I 100% get why it's a good thing, but once again it is just help for people who may not have actually needed it when there are solutions that still would have helped them and benefited the rest of us who never got that far.

So, sure, 100% forgive their loans, forgive all of it and give them their money back they already paid.

But for the love of god, don't fucking stop there. Don't forget those who couldn't afford to even go into more debt. Don't stop at loan forgiveness or otherwise I can understand why people think it's bullshit and all you look down on us for not liking it can go fuck yourselves.

We cant even get a $15 minimum wage and people want their college debt forgiven. Let's not even talk about how much more money a college grad makes over a high school grad. Pretty sure the majority of people making minimum wage didn't get a college degree or did while getting their degree. It's tough listening to this fight when we didn't even win the last one.

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AggressiveSkywriting t1_iz4n05c wrote

> But for the love of god, don't fucking stop there.

Totally agree here. One of the problems is that the wealthy try to draw a stark class line between college workers and non college workers despite the salary difference being a lot closer than they are to the wealthy class. They pit the two groups against each other constantly in every media outlet with "Business" or "Money" in the name so we fight and never work towards bettering the workers together.

I have to pay a lot more in taxes now than I did when I was a struggling waiter for ten years, but I'm not gonna bitch about paying my due. I remember what it was like to stare at $80 in my bank account and decided which bill to pay first and which can slide. I want public services funded to help people. I want schools funded. If someone get to the point where they can let bills sit on autopay and not worry and they actively work against any govt benefits for those making less than them, well they can piss off.

What I am gonna bitch about are the wealthy fucks who do everything they can to pay less effective tax than the rest of us while also trying to dismantle said public services.

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Crazy-Inspection-778 t1_iz2jtjd wrote

Those people would be paying for that blessing though, either through taxes or inflation. You don't understand how that might piss off someone who couldn't afford to go college or borrowed/paid back their loans responsibly?

Obviously the higher education system sucks and needs an overhaul. But the median balance is only around $20k. With 3+ years of no interest that should be more than manageable for most, if they actually prioritized it. Now I do support relief for those that fucked up royally and are drowning in 200k of loans for an art degree and a 40k income. They need a way out while our idiot government fixes this mess. But it should be based on DTI ratio- if you owe 30k and are an engineer making 90k, suck it up buttercup. We have a severe personal accountability crisis in this culture and this would exacerbate it even further.

College educated workers make more as a whole so you're basically asking poorer people to pay off a loan they didn't sign for so that someone else can have a higher income on the cheap.

I'm against blanket forgiveness because it would be a continuation of poorly thought out policies that got us here in the first place.

If the problem is fixed for future students first I’ll consider changing my stance. For now it appears to be nothing more than a carrot for political leverage.

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