AggressiveSkywriting

AggressiveSkywriting t1_j9jymsm wrote

You do know that hot showers have been a thing for like two hundred years, right?

Kings and Queens absolutely had access to hot showers 100 years ago. And indoor plumbing, soap, groceries, etc. The car had been invented for nearly two decades!

What in the world are you babbling about? It's wild that you call me ignorant when you seem to have zero grasp on history.

Also dismissing crises/problems we face in the current times because technology is better than X years ago is an absolutely fallacious, childish take.

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AggressiveSkywriting t1_j9jfsab wrote

Who does?

Everyone? You?

The person working two jobs trying not to lose their apartment?

Sounds more like they have more in common with the peasants of ye olden times than kings. Kings a hundred years ago (1923, hello?) lived pretty fucking swanky lives.

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AggressiveSkywriting t1_j9cer3l wrote

>So just throwing those out there like they somehow automatically disqualify either the entire survey or even the particular claims is deeply misleading and erroneous without all of the facts available to review.

I mean, these variables DO throw the entire survey into doubt though. It cannot be used as some ironclad "truth" like many try to use, because it's problematic in its nature. That's just how stats work, often.

People using this old survey without any context or all the facts is "equally" misleading and erroneous, perhaps moreso (as a survey that admits its potential biases is more honest than one that omits/obscures them).

https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6936&context=jclc

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AggressiveSkywriting t1_iz4n05c wrote

> But for the love of god, don't fucking stop there.

Totally agree here. One of the problems is that the wealthy try to draw a stark class line between college workers and non college workers despite the salary difference being a lot closer than they are to the wealthy class. They pit the two groups against each other constantly in every media outlet with "Business" or "Money" in the name so we fight and never work towards bettering the workers together.

I have to pay a lot more in taxes now than I did when I was a struggling waiter for ten years, but I'm not gonna bitch about paying my due. I remember what it was like to stare at $80 in my bank account and decided which bill to pay first and which can slide. I want public services funded to help people. I want schools funded. If someone get to the point where they can let bills sit on autopay and not worry and they actively work against any govt benefits for those making less than them, well they can piss off.

What I am gonna bitch about are the wealthy fucks who do everything they can to pay less effective tax than the rest of us while also trying to dismantle said public services.

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AggressiveSkywriting t1_iz2bc90 wrote

My state offers free 2 year college and it's a backward-ass state. 20 states so far have similar programs.

And remember something here: almost nobody who is getting forgiveness is getting "free college." Some of us have been paying on these loans for a LONG time. Some will still have 10-15 years more to pay on them even after 10k is taken off.

Plenty of people who went to college were "poor fucks" who had to work out highschool. My wife is one of those people. Plenty of people out there who took out loans but never finished college and are busting their asses working "poor fuck" jobs while ALSO having massive debt from the student loans that never amounted to any degree.

It's not quite the "free ride" you think it is.

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AggressiveSkywriting t1_iz1o2ne wrote

I think a lot of it boils down to a few things (these are viewpoints I've run across several times):

  • People not understanding just how predatory the rates are on student loans compared to, say, your mortgage or car payment. This leads to false comparisons and low hanging fruit talking points. My car payment was never going to balloon up into something insane. My home loan is linked to a tangible asset used literally every moment of my life for the next X years and I was fully aware of the "end price" I'd be paying when I signed the mortgage.

  • People who did not attend college who have felt or experienced being looked down on by the college educated. This is either them seeing people who have more privileged lives than themselves getting even MORE help OR this is them sticking it too the college grads (because we are cruel beings).

  • People who took out loans for college and were able to pay them off or recently paid them off lashing out in envy. "I had to sacrifice and do this, why not them? Their life should be as difficult as mine was."

  • People who don't get how taxes or govt budgets work and think they will see a line item on their tax bill that says "-Free Money for Pink Haired Girl With Art Degree"

Most of them don't realize that the loan forgiveness (and also reworking a broken tuition system) will benefit the economy itself, and thus themselves as well. They don't see that there are people who have it just as bad as them with this debt who are being crushed by it and can never discharge it. They just view them as competitors.

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