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Boozeled t1_j29ebmg wrote

And still the only people screwed over are those who need short or long term pain management. It's a disaster and why I hope to avoid serious injury. You will not get adequate assistance in this environment.

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Dpontiff6671 t1_j29k3ym wrote

Got in an awful awful car crash a few month ago it left me bedridden and unable to walk for 6 weeks got literally 2 days of pain killers lol. Mind you I was trying to avoid them since I’m a recovering addict that been clean for 6 years so I’m definitely glad I didn’t get more but still if I hadn’t been I would of been pretty fucking pissed lol

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Rawrist t1_j29pj0j wrote

I had a 4 inch tumor with spreading necrotizing flesh that even shocked the surgeon. They gave me Tylenol. Surprise! I ended up in the ER when the pain was so bad I couldn't manage it. ER doctor even tried to accuse me of trying to score drugs until she went through my history and confirmed the now 7 INCH SPACE that my body was trying to adjust for through a scan. Thanks Big Pharma!

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Dpontiff6671 t1_j29pom0 wrote

Jesus Christ that’s awful. At least at the hospital they didn’t hesitate to give me pain killers when I asked, they just sent me home with barely any

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FiendishHawk t1_j2aa45s wrote

I had minor surgery 7 years ago and they sent me home with a ridiculous amount of opioids that I did not want to take (about enough to be high as a kite for a week) When I complained that the wound was not healing right they ignored me, saying it was only hurting because I wouldn’t take the opioids. This led to 5 more surgeries to correct the first one.

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Dpontiff6671 t1_j2aap8y wrote

Yikes dude that sucks, I had a surgery for a really bad leg break when I was a teen and was on opiate for around 6 weeks started a really bad point in my life that led to a 10 year opiate addiction been clean 6 years though minus two days on pain killers after the accident So I’m glad things didn’t go down that path for you.

But from what went on then it’s totally understandable why I was glad I didn’t get that many painkiller when i got in that car accident a few months ago

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FiendishHawk t1_j2abfsk wrote

I can see why you’d get opioids for a bad leg break but my surgery would have been no more than uncomfortable had it gone well. Giving me as many painkillers as someone in a car accident was just crazy.

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Good-Duck t1_j29q6ak wrote

Absolutely. I’ve suffered from chronic pain for over 10 years and this opioid crisis has caused those with actual pain a lot of suffering, not to mention suicide.

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mikeydavis77 t1_j2b2w0u wrote

Tell me about it. I’m a disabled veteran and have had many many knee surgeries and a partial knee replacement on right knee, partial upgraded to full upgraded to rotating hinged joint replacement and all I got for pain meds after surgery was 20 hydros.

Before the whole opioid pressure epidemic the VA sent me 90 hydro 10s a month. They are uppers to me and if I took them as issued I wouldn’t sleep. I voluntarily had them cut it down to 60 a month. Then trump did his thing and I get called an addict by the VA. My refute was if I was an addict 60 wouldn’t last me a week unlike the month they were lasting me. But alas they took them away and I had to find alternative pain relief. Marijuana was it and when I popped positive on one of their annual physical drug test they tried to scold me like I was a freaking kid. I went off on them saying maybe if you morons actually treated patients we wouldn’t have to seek other alternatives.

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westviadixie t1_j2behex wrote

I have personal experience with both sides. I worked as an rn. I have an inoperable, degenerative condition causing pain that took forever to diagnose as it's rare. I'm married to a prescriber at a pain management clinic.

I've seen and heard all kinds of stuff. I think we are essentially now in an unstated opioid prohibition.

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Boozeled t1_j2biaxz wrote

I can understand the need to avoid over prescribing but now people are left with trauma from not having adequate relief at all. It's all about money, always has been; first it was $$ for over prescribing and now it's $$ for not doing anything at all. Soon it will swing back to $$ for prescribing- once there is a new wonder drug for pain relief.

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thrashette t1_j2exexx wrote

I feel like they hear the word "pain" and don't even want to talk to you anymore, or at least that's been my experience. I wish I could tell them that I was literally handed opioid prescriptions in the past for surgeries and whatever and never got them filled. I don't want to take anything. My tolerance is a little insane, maybe. I just want to know what the problem might be.

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ohwrite t1_j2amr0a wrote

Well the dead people are screwed over, too

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TopDeckHero420 t1_j29y77l wrote

Just go to the dentist. They write oxycodone scripts like thank you notes.

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seriousbusinesslady t1_j296e3y wrote

Again ? A settlement reached this year has them (along with two other US based distributors) currently paying $6 billion over the next 18 years to several states that sued them for their role in fueling the opioid epidemic.

Edit: $6 billion is their portion, the total shared among the three entities is $19 billion.

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steynedhearts t1_j2a6mc6 wrote

Peanuts in comparison to the damage they have caused

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Bikrdude t1_j2dse2v wrote

They sell products to pharmacy chains. They have no part in dispensing to patients. Every state monitors opioid prescriptions - will the states sue themselves next? This is just another shakedown for cash. And to make politicians look good.

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eldred2 t1_j2a86vx wrote

If they can afford to pay it, it isn't enough.

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seriousbusinesslady t1_j2a9gzc wrote

Oh I'm not saying the filing is frivolous, I just assumed the last settlement encompassed all the states who sued and had standing.

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granitebuckeyes t1_j2a1kwr wrote

For the past 20 years, the feds have been making it harder and harder to get pharmaceutical opioids. Over the same period, deaths from opioids have increased because buying non-pharmaceutical opioids means you don’t know what strength or purity you’re buying. This is more of the same idiocy and will lead to more needless pain, suffering, and death.

If you want to help addicts and patients, then help addicts and patients. Cutting off all access to relatively safer drugs produced in known doses and quantities isn’t helping anybody.

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Lostraveller t1_j2cb3t9 wrote

> If you want to help addicts and patients, then help addicts and patients.

But that would mean helping addicts and patients.

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Deceptiveideas t1_j2enyaq wrote

This isn’t relevant to what’s happening.

The government is simply trying to stop companies front loading doctors with money while also using false advertising about the risks involved. This is about stopping the addiction to begin with (which isn’t necessarily the addict’s fault).

Multi billion dollar companies need to be held accountable.

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granitebuckeyes t1_j2f6dnh wrote

Unfortunately, it’s exactly what’s happening. The company is accused of violating then-new regulations that made it harder for both addicts and legitimate patients to access drugs produced in known strengths and purities. The result of such regulations is that both addicts and legitimate patients will turn to illicit substances that can be impure and can come in unknown strengths, both of which can be deadly.

The feds want us to believe that the company caused thousands of deaths. People rarely die from taking opioids as prescribed, whether they’re addicts or legitimate patients. They overwhelmingly die when they can no longer access pharmaceutical drugs and turn, instead, to drugs that don’t come from pharmacies filling prescriptions. It is rules and regulations, like the one the company has allegedly violated and like so many others over the past few decades, that caused those nearly all of those deaths.

I have no problem holding companies accountable for their actions. But that’s not really what’s happening, here. What’s happening here is that the government has failed, then doubled down, failed again, and doubled down, et cetera, and they’re trying to blame companies for their own failures.

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HeavyMetalChick19 t1_j28vyy9 wrote

Go after the pain management doctors too while they're at it.

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EvangelionGonzalez t1_j29qm9g wrote

Go after the revolving door "rehabs" that encourage you to keep coming back, too.

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HeavyMetalChick19 t1_j29qpyx wrote

Yup! They get kickbacks from big pharma.

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jeffersonairmattress t1_j2cjnad wrote

“Kickbacks” is a nice, efficient way to reference “necessitated by, initially funded by, promoted by, rewarded by and reliably compensated by via settlement-based demand for services.

A neat little money washing machine.

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mudanjel t1_j2a8xuh wrote

Pain management clinics, in Oregon, at least are strictly regulated. I highly doubt legit pain management clinics are playing fast and lose with opioids. You know why ( besides losing their practice)? They get big bucks denying you meds and sticking the insurance companies for the cost of medical procedures and medical devices. It's quite lucrative.

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HeavyMetalChick19 t1_j2a9hox wrote

They get big bucks from big pharma to keep these people addicted to prescription drugs. Big pharma owns these doctors.

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mudanjel t1_j2adrk1 wrote

The government owns these doctors. Also, pain patients aren't addicted in the sense they get high and jones for the next fix and will rob, steal, or kill to get their supply (or whatever the lingo is these days.) Pain patients are dependent on their meds to scale the pain down a point or two in an attempt to function and have some sort of quality of life.

Anyway, there's a lot of misconceptions about opioid use for pain and the hilarious part is legit pain patients can hardly get them but hey, authority figures can come down on us, the low hanging fruit so easy to pick off

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[deleted] t1_j2bw4kr wrote

I’m sure every pain management doctor in the entire world is in their pocket, come on

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valmian t1_j2aalo1 wrote

My (old) nurse practitioner is in jail for 10 years for taking kick backs from drug companies.

She prescribed me 180 Vicodin and Percocet a month, as well as 60 adderall per month.

I’ve been clean for almost 10 years now, so she’s probably out, but they definitely went after some of them.

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Bakkoda t1_j2a7lky wrote

Correct me if I am wrong here please. I work in this field but not in a way where I would know these answers. When these pharmaceutical companies get their quota of API it's approved by the DEA correct? All of this is regulated strictly. The government knows exactly how much API these companies are asking for and getting. How is it they get to play dumb in these sort cases? I understand the companies should pay the fines and such but it's all approved by the government. Or am I wildly off base here?

EDIT: API = Active Pharmaceutical Ingredient AKA your morphine sulfate, oxycodone hydrochloride, etc

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confusedguy1221 t1_j2ci0xf wrote

No, you're right. In the years 2014 through 2018, pharmaceutical companies overproduced Opioids, and did so in guidance with DEA quotas. In other words, the DEA knowingly overshot their estimates and therefore contributed to an abundance of opioids in those years. It's insane.

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MeltingMandarins t1_j2dsvrj wrote

They’re not in trouble for making X amount of drugs.

They’re in trouble for not reporting outlier pharmacies (that seemed to be ordering far more than opiates other pharmacies).

But also, the quota system doesn’t work like you’re thinking. They just tell you to wind down production after demand decreases for whatever reason (e.g., new competitor drug that’ll reduce demand for the old one or tighter prescribing rules that limit access.) They don’t artificially limit supply to be less than demand.

Imagine if they did. Now there’s a shortage. Who can’t get access? The honest consumer, who’s using a reputable doc and pharmacy? Or the addict who’ll put whatever legwork required to get their fix?

Targeting supply via quotas would be an incredibly blunt weapon. You’d have to hurt a lot of innocent consumers before you started having an effect on addiction.

https://www.pharmacytimes.com/view/debunking-the-myths-of-controlled-substance-quotas

So what they were trying to do was find/target specific outliers who were overprescribing. Manufacturers (and pharmacies) are getting sued for not co-operating with that attempt.

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Dpontiff6671 t1_j29kh27 wrote

Cool sue big pharma but what is being done for people who have suffered because of this, I’ve lost years of my life and dear friends to the opiate crisis. If this suit goes through the money should be put towards recovery and social services for addicts.

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all_of_the_lightss t1_j29nxsh wrote

That's like suing "big restaurant" because you got food poisoning at a burger place. Dozens of companies exist to study cancer, fertility, genetic defects, etc.

The specific ones responsible for opioid negligence are who they go after. It takes time. Doesn't happen overnight

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Crede777 t1_j2aef30 wrote

I have zero sympathy for big pharmaceutical distributors that made billions off of opiod sales. However, this is just the DEA trying to shirk its own responsibility.

If prescribers are overprescribing opioids and/or pharmacies are diverting the prescriptions, the DEA should be the ones policing that. If a company is filling valid prescriptions which were written by a prescriber with an active DEA license and sent to a pharmacy with an active DEA license then they should not be liable. These companies are not providers or pharmacists. For all they know, the prescriptions are legitimate even if they are suspicious. And if they're not legitimate, it needs to be the DEA that detects it and takes action.

But what if they're not staffed for it? The answer is that they are and have been since the late 80's. But they're focusing most of their efforts on stupid things like cracking down on marijuana possession and busting small time dealers.

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eldred2 t1_j2a83ai wrote

Any of the actual people who made the decisions being pursued? No?! Didn't think so.

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mikeydavis77 t1_j2b1yvb wrote

The opioid epidemic wasn’t caused just by the manufacturers, doctors caused it as well.

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BoyEatsDrumMachine t1_j29wtao wrote

Capitalism in a nut shell: companies rake profits, destroy lives, and pick up part of the tab later at their convenience, at great cost to tax payers.

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Mostest_Importantest t1_j2adx28 wrote

"You lobbied the wrong politicians and judges, motherfuckers!"

-DOJ, probably.

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bshepp t1_j2ajom8 wrote

They will be charged a fraction of the profits, allowed to keep millions if not billions, and all of our screwed up and dead loved ones can go fuck themselves.

-US Regulaters

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frealfr t1_j29mydi wrote

When do we get the checks after this is successful?

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EvangelionGonzalez t1_j29qiex wrote

Wow. AmerisourceBergen was one of my very first jobs. Wild to see this, but not unexpected.

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18MazdaCX5 t1_j2acbwi wrote

They bought out my former employer - HD Smith - for $800 million - HD Smith was #4 in the industry - ABC is a big fish in the sea. Hard to imagine anything substantial will happen to them.

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PicklePanther9000 t1_j2970ca wrote

Seems kinda shaky to me. ABC (a logistics provider essentially) is responsible for investigating pharmacies they think are overprescribing? Is fedex responsible for people shipping fraudulent goods?

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tetoffens t1_j2991bv wrote

No, that's not what this is. FedEx doesn't know what is in your box. ABC knows because they put it in the box. ABC is a drug wholesaler. They are meant to have an internal system monitoring if orders being placed for sensitive drugs are suspicious. Something like a pharmacy ordering a controlled substance more frequently or in higher quantities than would normally be expected. These should be flagged and reported. But as the article says: The lawsuit also alleged AmerisourceBergen intentionally altered its own internal monitoring system to limit the alert system.

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AfraidStill2348 t1_j298lrz wrote

"...accusing the pharmaceutical giant of helping fuel the opioid epidemic by allegedly repeatedly failing to report suspicious orders of opioids for nearly a decade."

This is about a specific law they were breaking.

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Disco_Ninjas_ t1_j2bq7nm wrote

Now find them guilty, then fine them an insignificant sum that sounds like a lot of money to us poor folk, then forget it happened.

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STXStrawman t1_j2d8zbq wrote

The victims don’t see any of that money

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Arbiter4D t1_j29xfdj wrote

How much jail time do drug dealers usually get?

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Templar388z t1_j2aiha3 wrote

Why is the government so afraid of ACTUALLY taking down these scumbags. They did with big tobacco.

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powersurge t1_j2aajcf wrote

AmerisourceBergen is the largest company by revenue (not including government, university or hospitals) in Pennsylvania and one of the big three of the pharmaceutical distributors. It will be interesting to see why the DoJ is singling out this company from the other two larger distributors.

I project that just like AmerisourceBergen is accused of here, all three of the big distributors have just been refusing to take any responsibility for what they do: drug distribution. They think that all they need to do is report some of their data to the government when the government requests it. Unless they are forced by the government to take some responsibility, they just won't, even in the face of tens of thousands of dead Americans every year.

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MeatsimPD t1_j29fmxd wrote

It's like guns. People assume all these things are brought into the US illegally or sold in stores illegally. Truth is that it's mostly been entirely legal and extremely profitable for pharmaceuticals and gun manufacturers to sell products that create human misery in whatever quantity they want. And instead of them being held accountable it's always the street dealer selling their product or the user that faces consequences

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eltigrechino94 t1_j29mlri wrote

Who assumes that about guns? The US is the largest market for guns in the whole world, with dozens of domestic producers. Sounds like you just made something up to provide a comparison. Maybe a couple hundreds of idiots but the general public doesn't assume guns in gun stores are smuggled from Mexico.

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MeatsimPD t1_j29rdto wrote

Most people don't realize that nearly every gun used in a crime was legally produced and sold by it's manufacture or reseller when its first sold to the general public.

America has a serious problem with companies that produce things that are too often used to commit crime or cause harm. I'd place big pharma, health insurance providers, and gun manufacturers in that category of companies designed to profit from things that too often just make people's lives worse

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eltigrechino94 t1_j29vd0b wrote

"Most" people think the guns with Glock and Colt stamped on them were made illegally. 🙄 Sure they do. You're spouting common knowledge as if it is some rare secret when the only people who think America is full of illegally produced weapons are 14 year old swedes during their first week on the Internet.

These people that you think are "most" Americans are probably less than 5% of the population, the same 5% you can convince that lavender oil can cure cancer or the the moon is fake or any other crazy thing that is completely ridiculous.

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