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ChuckFeathers t1_jd09tj8 wrote

>“minor-attracted persons”

Are they really saying that about trans people?

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oxbloodoi999 t1_jd0c2gd wrote

It's an astroterfed 4chan phrase from years ago to try and frame LGBT as potentially more accepting of pedos.

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[deleted] t1_jd0sfny wrote

[deleted]

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Rosebunse t1_jd0c92i wrote

I found an old book from the 70s that used this sort of language. It was weird.

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Schneetmacher t1_jd1947b wrote

The 70s were... a very strange time. Basically, after decades of negative Freudian influence on sex, people just sort of went nuts and did a lot of crazy shit - including treating adolescents like they were adults.

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ChuckFeathers t1_jd0ctmi wrote

Right I get that, just a bit shocked that a group supposedly representing 1 letter from LGBTQ+ would paint another entire letter with that brush.

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bouchert t1_jd0u6r7 wrote

This is a fundamental problem that arises with intersectionality. A lot of oppressed people turn against each other over minor differences, out of distrust, jealousy, or I don't know what.

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Astrium6 t1_jd21ger wrote

I think it’s just an innate human desire to not be at the bottom of the pecking order. You just need someone, anyone to look down on so you’re not completely at the bottom.

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absolute_gimboid t1_jd21og6 wrote

You might be conservative, most people don’t think they need to shit on someone below them, that’s you.

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nightraindream t1_jd27k56 wrote

I'm pretty sure they're talking about the self-esteem hypothesis of social identity theory.

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absolute_gimboid t1_jd3rmto wrote

The way it was phrased it sounded as if it was their personal belief and worldview.

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nightraindream t1_jd5duup wrote

I mean they probably are, but it's also an existing hypothesis in social psychology. Makes their opinion a little more valid than them just being a 'conservative'.

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absolute_gimboid t1_jd5ebt7 wrote

Considering this hypothesis encompasses the Conservative hierarchical worldview, it doesn't seem like much a of stretch of the imagination to me. I never took Sociology so hopefully I can be forgiven for not being able to identify this theory on it's face.

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nightraindream t1_jd5gk3d wrote

Yikes, my friend. Just because someone makes an observation on intergroup dynamics doesn't make them lean one way or another. In-group bias is also well documented with you currently, and very ironically, showing out-group negativity.

Fwiw, I doubt conservatives are wondering why marginalised groups end up attacking each other rather than uniting for a common goal.

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absolute_gimboid t1_jd5km1k wrote

Shame on me for taking someone's words in the first person as meaning what they think. And of course Conservatives don't wonder, it's what they do to every out-group.

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nightraindream t1_jd5vhkn wrote

Look if you want to play the victim here you're more than welcome. I genuinely don't care, have a nice day.

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absolute_gimboid t1_jd5ypup wrote

I never asked for your continued opinion, you gave it. You cared enough to try and give me a hard time with it so please do go fuck yourself.

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karstadtt t1_jd2s67d wrote

Yes, it is so pathetic of those lesbians to exclude transsexuals, so pitiful! They really only have jealousy in mind and it has absolutely nothing to do with transsexuals occupying gay dating apps and hitting on women pretending to be lesbians, while still having functional dick and balls, or participating/dominating in womens sports (check out how many lesbians are in the average soccer team), including unwanted body contact.

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No_Assignment_5742 t1_jd3krcj wrote

Why do you think the government is doing everything they can to divide us???? It makes it easier for them to control us, take away our rights, etc etc, without anyone pushing back.... because everyone's too busy fighting themselves......once people wake up to this....the better.....

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[deleted] t1_jd237kg wrote

[deleted]

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nightraindream t1_jd2988z wrote

Are you American by some chance? I would be careful of indirectly dismissing the work of Una Marson, Jayaben Desai, Olive Morris, etc. Just because they were more activism than academic.

The US had all that you wrote and is also transphobic. Pointing to feminism as the reason the UK is transphobic... feels wrong.

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[deleted] t1_jd2l69d wrote

[deleted]

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bouchert t1_jd2sg9z wrote

Really? Kathleen Stock, Julie Bindel, and Martina Navratilova all straight? That'll come as a surprise to them.

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7HauntedDays t1_jd1ypft wrote

Ummm a TON of lesbians and gays don’t even consider themselves apart of the rainbow soup thing….cuz well as they say, it’s very cult like and demands TOTAL obedience to all and any beliefs they hold. As they also say….their sexual preference doesn’t define their entire existence….🤷🏼‍♀️ You’re gonna see more and more of that I’m sure.

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dsxy t1_jd24n88 wrote

No it doesn't.

Some people are just trash and they are in every race/gender/religion/profession.

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ammonium_bot t1_jd2ofqw wrote

> themselves apart of the

Did you mean to say "a part of"?
Explanation: "apart" is an adverb meaning separately, while "a part" is a noun meaning a portion.
Total mistakes found: 4264
^^I'm ^^a ^^bot ^^that ^^corrects ^^grammar/spelling ^^mistakes. ^^PM ^^me ^^if ^^I'm ^^wrong ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^any ^^suggestions.
^^Github

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killerbee2319 t1_jd0b2pc wrote

That's been their main line of attack for the better part of the last 8 years. I don't know why they confuse us with preists and southern Baptist ministers...

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ChuckFeathers t1_jd0bft0 wrote

Just proof there's no end to tribalism, even amongst the victims of it.

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killerbee2319 t1_jd2w8hx wrote

BoTh SiDeS aRe JuSt aS bAd!

Do you really not grasp the context in which that statement was made. Or do you possess the ability to see context and just really don't want to admit you've been complicit in allowing a bunch of people following the same pattern as Nazi's in 1930's Germany?

In case you are wondering, the number of gender queer people who have been publicly identified as pedophiles is so small that Republican lawmakers and their propaganda news outlets don't use real cases while they pontificate on the evils of people like me. While the pedophilia in both the Catholic and Southern Baptist Churches and the organized decades long cover-up and protection of pedophiles is well documented.

May you never have to know what it is like to fear leaving your house because a group of people with a long history of abusing the law to hurt you said that your public existence is now illegal. May you never feel the pain of being denied appropriate medical care to save your life because a bunch of people who think science is evil decided they knew better than your doctors. May you never have to make the choice of where to pee in public because one door could get you killed and will cause you to spiral into depression and the other could get you arrested and branded a sex offender for... using a public bathroom.

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Shazbot42069 t1_jd34njt wrote

Chronically online moment.

They weren't saying any of that.

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killerbee2319 t1_jd375xx wrote

Saying it? No. Heavily implying it? Yes. Possibly being ignorant of what they are implying? Likely.

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Shazbot42069 t1_jd3eogv wrote

No. They weren't. They said even oppressed people can be tribalistic. Which they can.

There is nothing controversial about their comment unless you're overly jaded and venting about it.

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YouAreOnRedditNow t1_jd3b8yr wrote

Uh... Nice rant, but what does any of that have to do with the comment you're replying to? Remember, this is what they said:

>Just proof there's no end to tribalism, even amongst the victims of it.

They were just saying we're all susceptible to the same patterns of human behaviour, even after we've been on the very negative receiving end of it.

So I don't know what lines you're reading between but frankly your reply seems wildly out of place.

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killerbee2319 t1_jd3kd85 wrote

Ok. So the original article is about a tribe that calls itself Republicans. That tribe is working hard to legalize the persecution of another tribe called transgender folks. This particular article is about passing a law to keep less than 5 people in an entire (tiny population, but still) from participating in sports events where they have no distinct advantage (as born out by the complete lack of domination in any sport except for one person who was already an elite athlete). They have also been widely passing laws that will outlaw the public existence of transgender people on the basis that dressing in a manner they deem unfit for what they've decided their gender is is inherently sexual. They have passed laws requiring transgender people to put themselves in dangerous situations. They have widely lied about transgender people being dangerous to children. They are passing laws to take away access to life-saving care that every major national and international medical professional organization supports. They are specifically allowing these same procedures to be used on cis children, and only denying them to people who they know (because they have been directly told, under oath, by experts backed up by numerous studies by medical professionals) will be more inclined to suicide. Lest you think this is a bug, not a feature, at several major Republican engagements, they have routinely and loudly applauded calls for the extermination and elimintion of transgender people (but not, they later claim, their murder).

Transgender people then complain that they are being persecuted and are yelling loudly that they don't want to be persecuted. They have taken no violent actions. They have not called publicly for the extermination of the Republican party or its underlying groups. They have not excused literal neo-nazi groups from showing up armed and shouting threats at their public events. They have not started a news network to broadcast anti-Republican propaganda. They have simply (and more loudly now) asked not to be persecuted by hatemongering politicians who can't run on a policy platform anymore.

This person then claims that tribalism exists on both sides, which unless they are fond of writing random facts without any context, would clearly imply that both sides are the same, which in the context of reality, they are not. Kindly take your sad, overdone semantic argument and be honest with yourself. Neither of you care one whit about fairness or truth or justice or peace. You simply want quiet and order, and you are willing to sacrifice others to get it. I'm sorry you lack the ability to contextualize dog whistles. I'm glad you don't have to understand them on a visceral level because it is a vital survival skill, though.

Maybe next time, hear what someone else says, and consider why they are saying it before assuming I spend too much time online. I probably do, but then, as the majority of my state is happy face state sponsored persecution, going outside my house requires quite a bit of effort. Individually, most people couldn't care less, but all it takes is one person willing to yell loudly, and it becomes a crowd, and crowds can be cruel, heartless, and dangerous things.

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ChuckFeathers t1_jd3pqfu wrote

Yeah that's not at all what I meant, as others have said, I was talking about this L group acting tribalist toward T's.

Just to be clear, I am 100% on your side and both sides are definitely not the same.

Fuck Repugnicans. Fuck Christo-fascists. Fuck bigotry.

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YouAreOnRedditNow t1_jd3pz0t wrote

I think you are reading way too much into small comments. Just because you are part of a marginalized group (even one currently under attack) doesn't mean human nature no longer applies to you. That's the whole point, here, full stop.

Nobody is saying you're wrong about the horrible direction the Republican party is leading their voters, just that tribalism (the innate human behaviour of forming an in-group) is a pervasive concept that could help explain why and how we act the way we act. That's it - tribalism is not even necessarily a bad thing, in general, and I'm certainly not defending the Republican party.

Also, it was a different Redditor that said you spend too much time online, not me. This latching on to small, inoffensive comments as though they are attacks directed at you does kind of make me think they may be right, though.

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killerbee2319 t1_jd4eftr wrote

First and foremost: if you don't want to get called out for saying things that bigots and centrists who support them say, then don't say them.

Secondly, you specifically went out of your way to comment about how I am the same as my oppressor... what exactly was your intention. Do you just state random facts at times? Do you not recognize how being equated with people who have publicly and frequently called for the extermination of people like you, and side with groups who think the Nazi's didn't go far enough might be offensive to someone?

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YouAreOnRedditNow t1_jd4h353 wrote

Aghhhh! Again, this is not at all the intent behind my replies. You are taking them in a very personal way AND confusing me with other redditors, when all I'm saying is:

>You are also a human

The end! Nobody is infallible. My whole intention is that YOU shouldn't consider yourself completely different from any group of people, because you will always have the common denominator of being human. YOU are just as much of a human as Obama, Ghandi, Oprah, Cher, Putin, Trump, and Napoleon goddamn Bonaparte. You can think you're not, but you would be wrong.

Put yourself on the highest pedestal you want, project whatever awfulness onto me you want, but this aggressive, debate-anyone-who-might-be-an-enemy approach of yours is only going to push people away.

I'm saying you should be reasonable and recognize your own bias, you're saying I agree with bigots/nazis, but somehow you're the offended one in all this? That fucked up attitude is going to undermine anything positive you're trying to accomplish.

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killerbee2319 t1_jd4rj19 wrote

Do you seriously not see how the context of this conversation, in which most of the comments surrounding the debate over whether or not I should be treated like a human, the comment that I am human, just like my oppressor could easily be construed as an insult or minimiztion of the situation?

If you are an ally, I beg you to listen. I don't need useless statements of facts that I am the same as my oppressor. That is not being a good ally. If my joke was about exterminating them or denying them the right to deal with a medical issue, then by all means, tell me I've gone too far.

But we don't need allies who back away from supporting us because we made a joke about the number of proven pedophiles in the groups accusing us of being pedophiles. Or people who dont listen when we tell them why what they just said was offensive. If that puts you off, how are you going to respond when things get really hard? This isn't a game anymore. I have to sell my house next month because I can't take the risk that the state I've lived in their while life won't come after me and my kid. I am afraid. There are open calls for genocide, that they claim aren't open calls for genocide, but what do you call an hour long screed about exterminating and eliminating people?

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YouAreOnRedditNow t1_jd4znjf wrote

You know what, it feels like I say something simple and rational, and then you reply like you're replying to five different people at once. You're putting things other people have said onto me so you can debate those things. But I don't agree with it, you just seem to think I do because I pointed out that what the original comment said was not incorrect.

I can't support positions that I don't agree with, so the more of those you project onto me, the less I want to talk to you because I feel like I'm just "the enemy" to you, even though if we met in real life you'd see just how wrong that assumption is.

TO BE 100% CLEAR:

The original comment, from my understanding, was an observation about how Lesbian groups, despite the adversity they have faced, are still forcing that same adversity onto trans groups. This is a facet of human behaviour wherein we seek to identify with groups of people like ourselves, and UNFORTUNATELY will also lash out at people not in the group, and not always for logical reasons. It's sad, and not a good thing, but you replied as if to say that it was completely made up and not relevant, when --> addressing that behaviour is how we can start to face these problems <--

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killerbee2319 t1_jd5rfjf wrote

Yes... it has been a long day. You were and are right. 100% I was on a completely different book... on a totally different topic. This is not at all sarcasm. Just me being an idiot and finally admitting it.

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YouAreOnRedditNow t1_jd6bj4i wrote

I really appreciate you saying this, no hard feelings. I hope you understood my point about the common ground we share, even with our least favorite people, because I feel like that is so important to help things move in the right direction, little by little, in all of our communities.

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ChuckFeathers t1_jd3p2wa wrote

Idk where you are coming from with all of that based on what I said... But I am 100% a LGBTQ+ ally, 100% about science based treatments, and just as disgusted with Repugnicans and Christo-fascism, and bigotry in all its forms as you are. I sincerely hope you can get to a place where you can live in peace with access to everything you need to make yourself whole.

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