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ebbiibbe t1_j50amo9 wrote

Reply to comment by eighty2angelfan in The lights have been on at a Massachusetts school for over a year because no one can turn them off by Didyoucallforme

In the article they are turning the outside lights off at the breakers.

The issue is the teachers can't even control the lights in a class room so students can watch videos.

It was a bad system installed by a bad company.

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Solo_is_dead t1_j50b058 wrote

Especially since it's changed hands multiple times in only 2 years

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TooHardToChoosePG t1_j50lurs wrote

Changed hands multiple times between 2012 (install) and 2021 (now Reflex). That’s 9 years (or ~10 depending on specific months).

The two years is 2021 until now while they’ve identified solution and then been waiting for parts.

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Solo_is_dead t1_j50mlpi wrote

Oh ok. Although that still seems like a lot of hand changing to me.

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ffxivthrowaway03 t1_j5256sp wrote

A government contract changing hands once in 10 years is pretty standard. Vendors get re-bid almost every time a contract comes up for renewal in these situations, there's a regulatory obligation given that it's being paid for with tax dollars.

It's also why most of these contracts get signed for such long terms. A lot changes in 10 years.

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Solo_is_dead t1_j527lbk wrote

I think the company itself changed hands multiple times. That's not standard

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eighty2angelfan t1_j50dy0k wrote

The installer is not to blame. Designer. Contractors install to specs on drawings and blue prints. Designs are made by engineers, usually inexperienced college interns fighting for a position, and ok'd by city and state plan check. For some strange reason the engineers opted for teachers to not have control of lighting in rooms. Probably so they can't override controls and leave them on all night. Lighting controls are usually a "last event check" so that whatever is the last event, override switch or timer, is what tells the lights to do. The better systems do periodic checks to compare override to timer program. Clearly it backfired.

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ghloperr t1_j52u43p wrote

Ok I have to stand up for the designers and engineers of the world. Schools are public jobs and therefore go to the low bidder in most cases. Low bid contractors can sometimes be nice, but many of them are the scummiest, most untrustworthy, cheapest people on the planet. I have been screwed on school projects plenty of times because a contractor did work that wasn't on the drawings without permission or talked the client into changing my design because it would "save money". We had to have twice as many notes and details on school jobs than other facilities because the contractors were such weasels and would use any excuse in the book to dream up change orders.

And this isn't even getting into contractors not bringing up design issues during pre-bid RFIs, purposefully screwing over the entire construction team because they know they can get a fat change order. Yes, sometimes engineers make mistakes. But when the contractor doesn't act like a team player and screws over everyone else to make some extra cash it's a sign of a lack of ethics and professionalism. We are all just trying to get the job done and do the best we can for the client.

edit: And if this truly is a fully automated system, this is a simple programming issue. Which is done by the contractor, not the engineer. I guarantee the engineer did not write in the specs or their lighting sequence of operations that the lights have to stay on all night.

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eighty2angelfan t1_j53idwb wrote

I build schools and hospitals. Many engineers are hard headed idiots. I'll give two examples. 1/2 " × 6" hilti concrete anchors for #12 slack wires and 2 hole stainless steel industrial rigid conduit straps rated at 1000s of pounds for emt which doesn't fit in the strap, on roof blocks. We can't convince engineers to change straps. Engineers commonly can't understand that you can't fit 10 gallons in a 5 gallon bucket. And Electrical, mechanical, and plumbing engineers never talk to each other. You guys should serve internships in you chosen fields.

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pallentx t1_j557wlk wrote

Yep, who knows what the original design was before it went to finance and they were told this is too much, you need to cut the cost 40%.

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