Empty_Economist t1_ja7ekma wrote
Reply to comment by NeedsMoreCapitalism in Montefiore residents and fellows to unionize by DrogDrill
Lol lmao at the idea that hospitals are going to replace their thousand plus residents, who are doing 60-90 hours of work every week, with attendings who won't work that much and will cost 3-10 times as much. Just lol. And imagine taking hospitals at face value that residents don't provide value. That is, on its face, a stupid claim.
Jintoboy t1_jaa9256 wrote
It's very clear that they've never met anyone who was ever a medical student, or worked with anything remotely close to the field of medicine.
NeedsMoreCapitalism t1_jaaopp9 wrote
No I've literally had this exact conversation with an ER doctor.
NeedsMoreCapitalism t1_jaapmmg wrote
>And imagine taking hospitals at face value that residents don't provide value. That is, on its face, a stupid claim.
It's the reason why the resident system was created in the first place. Hospitals didn't want to pay fresh doctors anything originally. It was a hastle to have them around at all.
The American Medical Association, created this system so fresh new doctors could get paid something even if they aren't actually adding much value during the time they're learning their trade, because of the time needed to train them and the increased liability.
> Residencies are traditionally hospital-based, and in the middle of the twentieth century, residents would often live (or "reside") in hospital-supplied housing. "Call" (night duty in the hospital) was sometimes as frequent as every second or third night for up to three years. Pay was minimal beyond room, board, and laundry services. It was assumed that most young men and women training as physicians had few obligations outside of medical training at that stage of their careers.
It's why they're called residents. It's necessary for the first few years of work to be extended training because no one wants to send fresh medical school grads directly into patient work by themselves.
But on the other hand, said workers are barely worth anything to the institutions because they need their hands held.
Empty_Economist t1_jaarhfj wrote
That's not why residency was created, and it's not what the AMA cared about.
Thought experiment: remove all residents from the hospitals. What do you think the result would be? The answer will tell you plenty about your claim that they aren't adding much value.
NeedsMoreCapitalism t1_jaaxkc4 wrote
https://www.ama-assn.org/education/improve-gme/history-residency-and-what-lies-ahead
>remove all residents from the hospitals. What do you think the result would be? The answer will tell you plenty about your claim that they aren't adding much value.
Yes in the short term. We already know that hospitals would rather hire traveling nurses for 3-4x what a hired nurse would cost.
We already know that in plenty of industries where the interns and first and second year workers do lots of work, that's it's mostly used for.training purposes anyway and the work isn't very valuable.
And look. All I did was repeat what hospitals have said and talk about why the system exists in the first place.
I'm telling you there's a chance that this is reality.
MiamiHeat0603 t1_jadfr61 wrote
The point is that this is actually NOT reality, despite what hospitals are financially incentivized to claim. Residents provide cheap labor and keep hospitals afloat. The alternative is hiring more PA and NP who are by the nature of the way things are set up demand higher pay, or hiring more attending physicians who get paid even higher than that. Residents’ entire salaries are paid for by the federal government as explained above, providing free labor to hospitals. The vast majority of hospitals are such that in certain units the residents are the only doctors/“providers” there overnight. In what world can it be claimed that this is a net negative for the hospital?
ripstep1 t1_jac75qm wrote
Attendings are far more efficient than a resident. What takes 2 interns and a senior resident on the floor can be done by a single attending in the same time.
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