If you’re ever annoyed by service changes because of “Track Repair”, never forget the hard work behind them that keeps our subway alive.NYY657545 t1_jaziguu wrote
It looks like the same guy was copy pasted 13x to stand around.
beechcraft10 OP t1_jazl40k wrote
While they’re standing right now, once that piece of track gets lowered, they all get to work.
EdgeOrnery6679 t1_jazzk3k wrote
Thats the secret on why MTA projects cost 5 times more than it would cost anywhere else. Job requires only 5 people? Lets get 20 in there, oh and it will still be a little late. Everytime i see MTA work, its always a quarter of the crew working while the rest of the team is standing around drinking coffee and joking around.
eldersveld t1_jb01cz0 wrote
I work in healthcare IT and regularly attend calls for system maintenance where (1) there are often a lot more participants than one might expect, (2) every single one of them is necessary for reasons that anyone who isn't in the field wouldn't understand, and (3) a lot of them are "idle" until it's time for them to perform their specific task.
To an uninformed observer it would look like waste, but these are tightly coordinated events that need to go like clockwork and, like this, need to be completed before the Monday rush. Lots of people doing specialized tasks that the public knows nothing about. When we do our jobs right, we're invisible.
Not saying the MTA is innocent of being corrupt/wasteful/etc, far from it, but I encourage anyone that sees this picture to first consider what they don't know before making snap judgments
LoneStarTallBoi t1_jb1a3dp wrote
Yeah, if there's waste and graft, it's in no show jobs and management consultants. The guys on location are there for a reason. I don't know shit about track replacement, but I'd imagine some of those guys are keeping eyes on a specific point to make sure that track comes down properly, and then as soon as it's down each has a job to do so they can get to the next one as fast as practicable.
gl4ssm1nd t1_jb3b81d wrote
Solid commentary from someone with an actual job. Thankyou. People tend to forget this.
zo3foxx t1_jb08ml7 wrote
Nah they're not just standing around. My bf is a construction worker and I asked him about this once. And he said everyone you see is working. The guy just standing around drinking coffee is likely the site manager who may not be actively participating in the hands on work, but has to watch everything, answer questions, has emergency services or other important contacts ready to call in case something bad happens or they accidently break a buried line, etc. There might be a few of them on-site. The others also standing around could be the concrete guys just waiting for the other group of guys who laid the foundation to give the go-ahead to proceed. 2 other guys could be spot-checking another guy on the jackhammer to make sure he doesnt f up or see something he doesnt see. Another group could be waiting for clearance to continue their tasks. Another guy who appears to just wandering aimlessly or standing around could be an inspector monitoring the site. Maybe they're waiting on another contractor to arrive. And so on. And not everyone you see is an actual construction worker, but they could be confused as one since everyone has to wear the same protective gear.
Everyone is doing something which doesnt always involve movement. Theres a lot of checks and balances. In fact I'd really be surprised if there wasn't something in OSHA that says you can't be on-site just chilling because you're a liability. Who wants to be just joking with coworkers off the clock while on-site and get smacked with falling debris when you didn't have to be there in the first place
DonConnection t1_jb0xnz4 wrote
Copy and pasting from another comment but is your bf in the union?
I also work in construction (non-union pipefitter) and sometimes we work alongside union crews. It's a long running joke that those mfs have it easy compared to us. The same job we do in a day they'll take a week. Their crews are also a lot larger than ours.
The thing is, that's more how it should be. Non-union construction in the city pays shit and treats us like shit. There is a tinge of jealousy and bitterness coming from us non-union tradesmen but the guy you're responding to is not wrong when he's saying they could be more efficient. Not saying they should be worked to the bone like us either. There's a balance.
nokinok t1_jb3ck1x wrote
Maybe they're getting paid, but they're not working. Union rules dictate what certain people can and can't touch. For example, carpenters work with wood. If there's metal attached to the wood, they won't touch the metal because that's another union's job.
Everyone waiting around is waiting for their work to start. It's incredibly inefficient and VERY expensive.
TheJoseph97 t1_jb0d37t wrote
I’m sure you have relevant work background to make a statement like that
I’m sure you’ve toiled in construction and you’re totally not some thin gangly redditor who works from home and never leaves the house. Definitely not.
DonConnection t1_jb0xilb wrote
I never worked with MTA but I do work in construction (non-union pipefitter) and sometimes we work alongside union crews. It's a long running joke that those mfs have it easy compared to us. The same job we do in a day they'll take a week. Their crews are also a lot larger than ours.
The thing is, that's more how it should be. Non-union construction in the city pays shit and treats us like shit. There is a tinge of jealousy and bitterness coming from us non-union tradesmen but the guy you're responding to is not wrong when he's saying they could be more efficient. Not saying they should be worked to the bone like us either. There's a balance.
EdgeOrnery6679 t1_jb0q5hv wrote
Found the MTA worker getting that hundreds of thousands in fraud overtime
MarquisEXB t1_jb0izqb wrote
That's actually not the reason why. If you figure the a average worker gets $50k or even $100k a year it would take hundreds or thousands of them doing nothing to equal to the tens and hundreds of millions lost to huge projects.
A study showed the reason costs overrun more in the US is because different government agencies poach from such an undertaking. For instance they needed a place to store stuff for the 2nd Ave subway, and they wanted to use a local playground for a few months. The parks department charged them an exorbitant amount (tens of millions of IRC) to do so.
In other countries government agencies act in unison. Here in the US city, state, federal are all separate, and hence it makes doing large projects more difficult and costly. Additionally underfunding our government makes them "thirsty" for these opportunities when they arise.
We sold our souls by cutting taxes to corporations and the wealthy and we end up paying for it in taxes, fees, and crumbling infrastructure.
ChunkofWhat t1_jb2232m wrote
I have read that the use of contractors is also a huge driver of cost. In the early and mid 20th century, NYC had a small army of public planners, engineers, draftspersons, and architects on the payroll for public works. As dedicated staff, they were familiar with their specialized area of work and were well integrated into the bureaucracy. After decades of budget slashing, most of those public servants are gone, and now the city must hire contractors who are not well integrated into the city planning system, who must do research and extra planning for jobs they are less familiar with, and who command a far higher hourly rate.
Not_FinancialAdvice t1_jb0wtj3 wrote
> A study showed the reason costs overrun more in the US is because different government agencies poach from such an undertaking. For instance they needed a place to store stuff for the 2nd Ave subway, and they wanted to use a local playground for a few months. The parks department charged them an exorbitant amount (tens of millions of IRC) to do so.
I think part of this is due to a management philosophy where every department has to make a profit. As a result, deoartments that are typically cost centers "bill" other departments for their services internally. From one perspective, this makes sense; that means some departments need to keep operations tidy to keep from dumping work on another while walking away with all the proceeds from messy work. Put differently, its basically a method for accounting for all costs of their operations within a sub-organization. Unfortunately, it also means more overhead and can lead to its own issues (as you mentioned).
Plays_On_TrainTracks t1_jb139nw wrote
Its a still picture of a bunch of guys waiting for that giant piece of track to be placed down by the crane.
Comprehensive_Heat25 t1_jb1zpt8 wrote
Yah. All the I’m sure they have a specific task quotes still doesn’t help convey the image of “hard work” when they can’t do anything on time or on budget. How does it go… If you want it cheap and fast it won’t be good. If you want it cheap and good it won’t be fast. If you want it fast and good it wont be cheap.
Plays_On_TrainTracks t1_jb2aj5r wrote
I'm not sure what you think this job is, but you'll need a bunch of people to remove the old panel, then install the new panel. They pick the ties up disconnect the rail joints and it's a big job.
Then they have to wait while the new one is put in the install and connect it.
Even the yellow hats in the corner are there doing the signal side of this with all the work related to signal equipment.
Power department too connecting the third rail
Notice power in grey hats and signal in yellow don't have a ton of guys because the work is less labor intensive.
Would you rather in this example shown above, have the people all leave and go do something else in the time being while the crane does they're thing?
You picked a weird picture to bitch and moan about people not working as hard as you want them to.
Comprehensive_Heat25 t1_jb36kh8 wrote
I’m not sure you understand what the word ‘optics’ means.
Plays_On_TrainTracks t1_jb72de8 wrote
Go ahead and explain what you mean by optics
Comprehensive_Heat25 t1_jb73b7h wrote
Oh, sure. It’s where perception matters more than the reality of whatever a business or government publishes. So, this image and the discussion that has followed is a prime example. The perception from those not “in the know” makes it look like they are just standing around, even though the reality, as you’ve pointed out is completely opposite. Unfortunately despite you being 100% correct, it truly doesn’t matter. You see this in politics all the time as well.
Plays_On_TrainTracks t1_jb78mzl wrote
So you want people to look busy for 30 minutes because your feelings? Kinda stupid.
Comprehensive_Heat25 t1_jb797pu wrote
LOL. If you still don’t get I’m not going to continue wasting my time, but here’s one last shot.
Not saying that the people don’t ever do work. Not saying they need to look busy 24/7. The point is, if you want to try and paint a picture of “hard work” showing a picture of a bunch of people standing around aint the way. The OP coulda selected a better image for that. Imma just sit over here with my feelings while you play on your train tracks.
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