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nycha buildings are approaching their expect build life of over 60 years. Most of these buildings have deferred maintenance leading to a backlog of almost $40 billion. These buildings honestly should be torned down and rebuilt. NYCha does not have enough staff or staff willingly to do these repairs

https://nyc.gov/assets/nycha/downloads/pdf/Exec-Summary-NYCHA-Final%20Annual-Plan-FY23-10.14.22.pdf

https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/nycha/downloads/pdf/NYCHA_Fact_Sheet_2022.pdf

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This should only be news if this didn't happen every single year

Many of them should definitely be torn down, but I'm not certain we should just rebuild. NYC is one of the few major American cities that has kept virtually all of its mid century public housing projects and as we enter a new age of climate change and post-covid it's worth reconsidering how we provide housing as a city.

I do not think the city should be a landlord because it's proven after more than 70 years of this that it can not do so very well. Obviously there will always be a need for some sort of public and city run housing like shelters for the homeless, the elderly with no family, and those escaping abuse, but these should be places of last resort or temporary options until long term solutions are found.

Personally, I'd like to see most NYCHA properties sold of to developers who put forward plans to build real communities, not hudson yards bullshit, that maintain the existing number of affordable units with city covering part of the rent but can build as big as they want so we get a bunch of new housing.

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I mean, NYCHA worked well when the city and state were investing in it. During the 70's and 80's it actually was considered a great place to live, and didn't have its rep for crime until later in it's lifespan.

I think saying "NYCHA is bad now that everyone decided not to care about funding it anymore" is kind of missing the lengthy successful history of NYCHA.

NYCHA was most definitely not a nice place to live in the 1980s.

As to the 1970s, NYCHA basically didn't let non-whites, people on welfare, single mothers, even those who didn't have furniture move in until 1968. It was an extremely selective application process that enabled it to be so successful and when that policy changed tenants staged rent strikes. Somehow I don't think bringing those policies back would be very popular. They were also much newer buildings back then so maintenance work was simpler and not as frequent.

NYCHA spent nearly $600 million to repair the Red Hook Houses after Sandy. That is an insane sum given there are only 3000 residents and those repairs are just to make it livable again, not substantially improve those buildings which still sit in a flood zone.

As the OC pointed out, $40BB is needed to just fix all the current issues at NYCHA and that number will likely only grow. I think the city and taxpayers really needs to consider whether that sum is worth it for substandard dwellings.

NYCHA's budget is almost exclusively federal through HUD (not counting rent paid I mean.) NYCHA itself is just a special administrative authority that runs it. Anytime we talk about sequestration or PAYGO or anything like that, it adds to the NYCHA maintenance backlog.

I understand how it’s funded, but it does get funding from city and state as well. But yes the federal government should ALSO fund these programs more.

Fact is the city and state didn’t used to take such a back seat to the funding.

Tearing down or privatizing public housing are not realistic solutions when you don't have transitional housing lined up for tenants who will be displaced.

People love to talk about the burden of NYCHA repairs, but no one wants to talk about the increased burden on shelters and social services if thousands of public housing residents no longer have access to stable housing.

That’s one article. Look up historic crime rates in NYCHA. Talk to NYCHa residents who have lived there for 50+ years (I know scores). It was absolutely nicer

about 1/3rd of the NYCHA apartments will be privitized by the federal RAD program in the coming years. Most people don't hold out a lot of hope for improvement. Look at federal DOD base housing privitization in 1996. Total debacle. NYCHA will just turn into another Balfour Beatty.

Demolishing the worst NYCHA buildings will likely have a long term positive affect on the lives of people currently there. Other major cities like Chicago have already done this.

This study on the outcomes of children displaced by the demolition of the Robert Taylor houses shows that moving away from these places has improved their outcomes in life.

The city has put these people in this situation, it should pay to move them out and to better housing through vouchers as is noted in the study of Chicago.

Here's another article talking about the history of NYCHA that even includes interviews with people who lived there talking about how it became bad in the 80s. According to the article, in that decade you were more likely to be a victim of crime as a resident than someone who didn't live in NYCHA. Do you have a source?

Huh, first I'm hearing of this. Thanks for letting me know and would love any sources you have on it and the Balfour Beatty stuff.

But privatizing isn't enough. These places are horrible and provide substandard conditions for people to live in, as evidenced by this and so many other articles.

The city should demolish them and pay to move these people to better housing while they allow new and more housing to be built. They need a multi-pronged solution to the housing crisis, not more bandaids.

NYCHA has always been federally funded. The state and city just reached a deal in the last budget to create a new PBC that would allow state, city and private funds to be raised for the new capital plan...the Public Housing Trust or some such name. But I don't think that money has been appropriated, only authorized so far. The dream is to shift NYCHA away from federal funding TO more state and city funding but that is not a politically popular move.

How long till they make poor people in NYCHA homeless so they can build multi million dollar condos and finally rid Manhattan of poors. This shit is by design. Because in this city and in this sub poor people having a decent home is a problem so let’s yimby the luxury condo replacements.

Reuters has a story tracker up for a while but now I can't find it. But Google the individual stories they all link back to earlier ones. In the end the company pled guiltily to fraud and paid some restitution in early 2022. Some individual maintenance supervisors were arrested but the C-suite mostly paid their way out. The base housing is still falling apart though.

Yes, things got much worse in the 80's, but again even in the early 80's it wasn't what it was today, where the crime rate is demonstrably higher.

Totally unsurprised. Had a few friends in the Marines and Army who were over the moon when the finally got to live off base.

I feel like corruption and the military are like peas in a pod with all the shady shit in the last few decades.

That's not how the trust actually works. It converts from section 9 housing to section 8, which you get more federal dollars for per unit. This allows the private companies to collect more money for the rehab work that needs to be done. Same deal virtually as RAD/PACT.

And yes, I know it has always been federally funded, but the city and state ALSO have always put in money. The City also has the ability to manage the Chair and the CEO thus requiring them to pay attention to NYCHA (something this city and state have not done aside from the Trust).

RAD is not privatization.

That article says they relocated to better neighborhoods, but not all NYCHA buildings are in bad neighborhoods currently, not to mention you're talking about demolishing the entire NYCHA. CHA only demolished their 17 high rises with 14,000 residents. NYCHA has 300+ projects with 300,000+ residents. There is no possible way that NYC could absorb that many people into private housing being paid for by Section 8 vouchers or the like.

> That article says they relocated to better neighborhoods, but not all NYCHA buildings are in bad neighborhoods currently

Sure they aren't all in bad neighborhoods, but none of them are nice places to live. Cabrini-Green sat just a few blocks from the Gold Coast and other nice lakefront neighborhoods and was less than a mile from the loop.

Look at the projects in Chelsea or the Gowanus Houses—both located next to some of the most expensive real estate in the city—and yet they have high crime and are plagued with problems. Much like New York at large, it is possible to live in a nice area and yet be in squalor.

> you're talking about demolishing the entire NYCHA...There is no possible way that NYC could absorb that many people into private housing

I'm not saying demolish all at once. This would definitely be a huge undertaking and take years if not decades to do.

Lastly, just because it is a huge change doesn't mean we shouldn't do it. No human should be forced to live in the conditions NYCHA subjects thousands to and we should be demanding the city, state, and federal government takes action to move these people to better housing.

Let me guess. They will demolish the projects to get all of the poor out of Manhattan and relocate them to the Bronx with new “affordable” housing.

The kind of housing they could afford, even with vouchers, doesn't exist, will never exist in these numbers. And the kind of buildings that do accept vouchers tend to be run by slumlords no better than NYCHA.

Do you have sources for any of these claims?

According to this report from February 2022 1.9% of all available NYCHA units are vacant, representing about 3.6K vacant apartments.

That number is several hundred larger than the Queensbridge Houses, the largest NYCHA complex and largest public housing complex in North America.

So again, it would have to be a slow process and very well planned and executed, but even a basic amount of research shows this isn't impossible.

None of those are affordable housing and/or accepts housing vouchers or they wouldn't be vacant.

They are literally vacant NYCHA units, but thank you for letting me know you didn't read any of my sources and have yet to produce your own.

but the trust will get more city and state funding than NYCHA did previously right? and it will also do its own borrowing as a PBC. I mean like a substantial amount, not like 3% of the capital budget like the city and state is used to chipping in. I honestly never noticed any city and state spending on NYCHA in past budgets but I'm sure its there if you say so. I'm still questioning how realistic it is the state chips in with the trust. The most powerful person in Albany has exactly zero NYCHA resident contituents. The city is down to cutting story time at libraries. Like its hard enough to get the damn Medicaid bill paid. I'm 100% willing to be pleasantly surprised. But I think it has suited everyone to point at HUD and make them the bad guy thus far.

but I'm not sure it entirely matters because I'm like 90% confident that in 10 years NYCHA will have to reimburse HUD a gazillion dollars once they figure NYCHA let the section 9 tenants stay in section 8 converted apartments who weren't eligible and that's why they aren't in NYCHA section 8 apartments to begin with. Very few things in life are guaranteed except death, taxes and NYCHA fucking up those conversions.

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You mean if it doesn’t weekly?

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Except you left out the part where most of these “Sec 8” people wouldn’t even qualify for many of these buildings/ units.

The paperwork is deeply extensive, good luck trying to meet certain criteria without a steady stream of income aka a steady job. Some of these places ask for minimum 30K, a person with a part-time job making less (who would be looking for a cheap place to rent) wouldn’t even qualify to begin with. Application would be rejected with the quickness

Source: Fella from South Bronx living in a recently-constructed Rent-Controlled building unit

Actually its backwards: New owner would want to cash in, so he would go “Slumlord mode” and jack up those prices. “Cant afford my new $1500-2000 rent? Adios amigo 👋🏼”

Happens everywhere in the Landlord business, nothing personal only $$$ as usual

They should be torn down and not rebuilt

Shit broke on Saturday, everything was fixed by Monday evening? So what's the story that it took 2 days on a Christmas weekend?

Same happened in my non-NYCHA Brooklyn apt -- stuff happens. Landlord finally got somebody to look into it today, and temperature just got up to 66°F for the first time in 4 days (turns out that 3-season sleeping bag I've had stored away for a couple decades can come in handy)! Hallelujah! I might actually hazard a shower in the morning if this keeps up (went in to work today looking like I'd been on a bender since X-mas eve, lol!

I suspect a large proportion of NYC apartment buildings are technologically obsolete, particularly in their hvac systems. And if you are in a rent-stabilized unit, your landlord has no incentive to do any upgrades.

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The ppl that do these repairs are union workers all these big unions in nyc plumbing electrical is from the city not nycha but they don't show up or half ass a job and the residents scream nycha when really it's the locals in the city mainly the plumbers not doing shit

Nycha back log is all skilled trades work aka....nyc union plumbers and electricians and I will saying loudly THE PLUMBER (LOCAL1) DOES NOTHING I mean come to w site stand around 4 hours then start work during o.t and dnt even do the job right when residents scream nycha didn't fix it it's literally the unions no heat it's heating plant techs they on site 24 hours and still do nothing

Nycha back log is all skilled trades work aka....nyc union plumbers and electricians and I will saying loudly THE PLUMBER (LOCAL1) DOES NOTHING I mean come to w site stand around 4 hours then start work during o.t and dnt even do the job right when residents scream nycha didn't fix it it's literally the unions no heat it's heating plant techs they on site 24 hours and still do nothing throggs necktie bronx had no heat for 2 yrs the problem someone closed the valve it took 2 yrs to figure out a valve was closed smfh

Yeah, even as recently as fifteen years ago people were still writing books with titles like "public housing that works" to explain how NYCHA succeeded where other public housing agencies failed.

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I think they need to go back to the old school style of having a ‘super’/‘maintenance man’ that actually lives in the building. 1 super per 40 - 50 apts. The super/maintenance man is basically a handy man who can fix small issues - light carpentry, painting, minor electrical & plumbing issues. They also need to have plumbers, electricians, HVAC, elevator repairman’s, etc. on staff who actually works for NYCHA & are dedicated to each project building instead of bringing in expensive contractors.

Of course the buildings will go into disrepair if they aren’t maintained on a regular basis. NYCHA management needs an overhaul. It doesn’t make any sense for there to be so many 6 figure employees working for NYCHA & for NYCHA to be the mess it is.

Also, if the buildings were maintained, the people will feel more pride in their environment & take care of their apts & buildings which in turn would decrease loitering, destruction of property & crime. It would be a win-win.

I can see why people say NYCHA should me managed privately but I can gurantee you that living in a privately owned building doesn't guarantee things like this wont happen.

There are several stories of people in condos and luxury buildings with no heat, hot water, gas, water leaks, etc. as well. It got so bad that they started holding back rent in one luxury building in Brooklyn.
https://nypost.com/2022/12/27/luxury-building-tenants-have-crossfit-gym-but-no-heat-gas/

The problem in NYC is the supply of housing always works in the favor of landlords and property managers no matter who you are or how much you have. They get to hold out on fixing or improving anything while we deal with it or pay up to move elsewhere.

The worst part is they're always so late to turn the heat on or it's on inconsistently. Then when it's on, they just blast it and my heater literally starts leaking because it's so hot. Lmao housing is a joke.

How would building a new NYCHA infra work for those currently in housing? Displaced?

Don't they have this every winter

People just have poor manners & behavior. Smoking in lobbies & stairwells vs their own apts. Peeing in elevators. Makes no sense.

While it seems like a short time two days in freezing temperatures is a slow response time for a major city agency.

Frankly the city should have done better.

I agree but it’s much easier to respect an area when it at least looks like it should be respected. If the lights are dim or broken opposed to being bright, if the elevator is at least cleaned once daily, has cameras & is running regularly then people will be more inclined to respect it, take care of it & not destroy it.

I manage a few contracts with NYCHA so im there 3-4 days a week for the past several years. Ive visited thousands of apartmentd. It's such a depressing mess. The people are in a spiritual and moral crisis. It seems more dangerous and chaotic with each passing day. Piss and trash everywhere. Broken doors, lead paint, children not going to school. Half of the residents have stopped paying rent because they realized NYCHA won't do anything. It's such a mess. I started doing this work cuz I wanted to make a difference but I've realized NYCHA is a colossal failure.

Absolutely. Just saying it wouldn’t be a surprise if the elite tried to dump the “lower class” out of Manhattan and into the outer boroughs, especially the Bronx.

Pretty ironic actually…Many middle class Whites and Asians moving into my area, something you would never see in the South Bronx until now.

Landlords have pretty much done all the dirty work, pricing the hell out of everyone in Manhattan. This Domino effect will just kick out the Lower Class themselves

Cant feel sympathy for some of these people though. I personally went to school or grew up with some of these individuals, and its just sad seeing how they just let their lives waste away. No effort put into getting out of a miserable Poverty cycle

These people know damn well they’re living off scraps and they make the poorest decisions, whether its to go on a shopping spree with just “Benefits” money or have babies, knowing damn well that kid is going to suffer and grow up poor as dirt. That should count as child abuse on its own IMHO. Oh well…