Submitted by peptalks93 t3_z8esly in personalfinance
CBus-Eagle t1_iybed5e wrote
Reply to comment by virtualchoirboy in Job offer and counter-offer by peptalks93
100% this. Accepting counter offers could easily breed contention with your current employer. Take the new role, but don’t burn any bridges at your current place. You never know when you may want to return.
On a side note, I’ve seen it from the other side too. One of my colleagues received a counter-offer to stay at the company we worked at. Needless to say, he told a couple of us and we were pissed that he got such a big pay raise by interviewing elsewhere. So three us went to our bosses and told them that if it takes an offer elsewhere, then that’s what we’ll do. They asked us to wait for a couple days before doing anything and ended up giving us all raises. Between that raise and my standard merit increase 4 months later, I got a 26% increase that year.
IMO, counter offers are usually bad for everyone involved. Pay the people what they are worth and if they decide to chase money elsewhere, wish them the best of luck.
OneAdvertising9821 t1_iybf21c wrote
> 100% this. Accepting counter offers could easily breed contention with your current employer.
There are circumstances when it can make sense. If you're truely leaving for money only, and you have a good relationship with your org then it may make sense to entertain a counter offer.
CBus-Eagle t1_iybg3xm wrote
I don’t doubt what you’re saying and it may work out sometimes. But I’ve also seen someone accept an offer and his boss (my equal) give him lower than normal raises the next 3 years. The bosses comments during our annual performance calibration and merit increase discussions was that this associate already makes more than others in his pay grade so he taking some of his merit increase and giving it to others on his team to help “level” pay.
OneAdvertising9821 t1_iyd6fh7 wrote
My F500 company does that as a matter of policy. Your pay within the grade dictates your target merit percentage.
If you're on the high end of the range, your merit target might be 3%. If you're on the low end of the range, your merit target might be 4%.
CBus-Eagle t1_iyd8dam wrote
Where I work, we get a bucket of money (say 3% of current salaries for your team) and the leader divides it up as they see fit. Yes, our HR system provides guidelines given each associates salary grade and performance score, but each leader has the final decision. I work for a F100 company by the way.
OneAdvertising9821 t1_iyd913r wrote
Ours is similar, but the size of your "bucket" is in $USD and is the sumproduct of the base salary and target merit increase for each employee.
Where this gets interesting is multi-national teams. My employees in Chicago get paid a heck of a lot more than my employees in India, but it's all one bucket of funds to allocate. This creates an environment where it is much easier for low-COL employees to get large merit increases than for high-COL employees to get large merit increases.
Penguinis t1_iyci0gb wrote
>There are circumstances when it can make sense.
Except...there isn't really. If you're unhappy enough to entertain accepting another offer, be that for money or other reasons, you'll be unhappy again in that same role eventually. Accepting a counter-offer at best simply notifies the current employer you're willing to leave when something better comes along (and why would they bother investing more company resources on an employee who is now known to be looking to leave) and at worst gives them time to find your replacement on their terms.
I've seen this scenario play out many times, all roughly the same outcome, many times in my career.
OneAdvertising9821 t1_iycu62p wrote
Eh. I work for a F500 company. Why wouldn't someone leave if F500 Company B calls them up and offers +25% to do the same job somewhere else? That conversation is incredibly easy to have with your boss if you have a good relationship with your org.
Will they use this to replace you? I have never seen that happen. Technical roles in F500 companies are expensive to backfill.
Penguinis t1_iyd6vnd wrote
>I work for a F500 company
As have I in the past.
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>Will they use this to replace you? I have never seen that happen.
I have. Repeatedly.
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>That conversation is incredibly easy to have with your boss if you have a good relationship with your org.
Your boss has a boss who also most likely has a boss. These conversations don't stop with your boss. Even if your boss doesn't think it's a big deal, chances are good someone else higher up might have an issue with it. And when the time eventually comes to have those conversations about who to keep/let go...those people with reps are some of the first ones to be brought up in those conversations.
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>Technical roles in F500 companies are expensive to backfill.
No, not really. A lot of people want to work in them and budgets are usually larger and they can be more competitive in attracting talent. Smaller companies with smaller budgets/footprints actually tend to have a harder time attracting people due to the above mentioned issues.
Make no mistake, everyone is replaceable. F500 companies are not immune to bad management and the short comings of having people, and the baggage they come with, complicate the process.
Puzzleheaded_Wave985 t1_iybkhq4 wrote
How did you start that conversation? I am underpaid, and should negotiate for more money, but I don’t even know how to bring that up to my boss. Do I just put a meeting on her calendar?
sf_guest t1_iybrckm wrote
Hi, many time exec here.
The answer is you quit. Underpaid people don’t get fixed, basically ever. Out of band raises are politically costly, and in situations where you’re significantly underpaid you will never get trued up vs market.
You go to the market and get the best offer you can and then you just quit.
likkle_supm_supm t1_iycr323 wrote
To add to that: sometimes it's not that the manager or.company is bad. I've been in situations where the company's business model is not set up to extract as much value from you as you're able to offer. Basically you're overqualified, but slightly different in the sense where the company is under-qualified in the market to keep you. Other companies can make much better use of your time.
CBus-Eagle t1_iybptla wrote
I knew what my friend/colleague was offered in the counter offer. I walked in to my bosses office on Monday morning (counter offer was made on Friday late afternoon) and told my boss “so I guess the only way to get a decent raise around here is to start interviewing elsewhere?” He knew exactly what I was referring to and asked to me give him until Wednesday to make a decision. Wednesday morning, me and two others received pay raises consistent with the guy who got the first counter offer. The one counter offer ended costing them 4 times more.
tossme68 t1_iybtfv7 wrote
> walked in to my bosses office on Monday morning (counter offer was made on Friday late afternoon) and told my boss “so I guess the only way to get a decent raise around here is to start interviewing elsewhere?”
And my boss said yep, if you want a decent raise.
CBus-Eagle t1_iycu5q6 wrote
Yes, that’s the risk you take.
kelllymac t1_iyc4c9t wrote
Yes, in my experience, exactly this. I have done this a couple times. The first time, I scheduled a meeting with my boss about a month before I knew they would be having annual raise discussions and told her I loved my job and needed to make more money. Also came prepared with examples of ways I've gone above and beyond. Did the same a year later with a new boss at my annual review (our performance reviews are at the end of the year and they don't make new budget decisions until after the first of the year, so it was strategic), gave examples of my great performance and directly asked to be considered for a larger pay increase. YMMV, obviously, but second boss told me over drinks that I was like a case study in asking for raises. Got around 12% + okay bonus each time. I work in admin/operations for a large law firm.
Edit to add: beforehand, my therapist recommended I look at it as a request, not a demand. It made a world of difference in how I approached the conversation.
sabanspank t1_iyds616 wrote
I would suggest asking for a meeting to discuss your career path and growth at the company. In the meeting you should state that you feel that you're offering a lot of value to the team, with examples and are happy with your role and the company but want to make sure that your career and compensation continues to advance. They should be able to give a definitive timeline for pay evaluations or promotion decisions. If they're not willing to do that, then you're probably not going to have much luck.
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If you want to outright ask for more money immediately, you are putting yourself out there a bit and might want to be prepared to look elsewhere. If you just take the advancement approach, it's a more subtle way to state you're not satisfied with current pay.
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