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jbphilly t1_j5vglzk wrote

I was just thinking about this earlier today as I went past 43rd and Baltimore. The path of Mill Creek runs south, approximately under 43rd St, from about Walnut down to Baltimore where it then goes under Clark Park (the Bowl was a former mill pond) and onward to the Schuylkill. Upstream of there, it goes more to the northwest. Maybe someone else can link to a good map, as I'm lazy/in the middle of work.

I would be pretty hesitant to buy a house anywhere along that creek. Now, obviously the vast majority of blocks on top of its course are fine....but there have been some dramatic cases where they were very much not fine in the past century.

Two big examples come to mind:

  • Around 50th and Brown, about half a city block worth of rowhomes were swallowed when the ground caved in along the creek/sewer's course. There's now a playground on the site.

  • The location of Supremo at 43rd and Walnut was formerly home to houses on the 4300 blocks of Sansom and Walnut, many of which were also destroyed by a similar cave-in.

As an honorable mention, the 2019 sinkhole in the middle of Baltimore Ave at 43rd was of course caused by subsidence along the same path. And before the redesign of Clark Park, you'd often get ridiculous flooding at the corner there - I have a photo from 2010 of at least a foot of water engulfing the northeast corner of the A Park.

Even if houses along the creek's course aren't necessarily at a super high risk of collapse, it has to be higher than...well, literally anywhere else, and also I have to assume they deal with way more basement flooding than the average.

Personally I like living, if not on the top of a former hill, at least on the upward half of a slope, in between former creek basins.

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be_author t1_j5vhhwg wrote

Not sure if it also is related but the street between the 43rd Street CVS and Penn Alexander is constantly needing to be repaired and covered in standing water. Lots of bad signs around there.

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linds930 t1_j5wpr2g wrote

I resent the puddle at the entrance to that CVS

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ageofadzz t1_j5xco97 wrote

Left west philly four years ago. That puddle never leaves does it?

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linds930 t1_j5y5uf0 wrote

I’ve been here for five. I believe it has gotten worse.

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timory t1_j5wvob3 wrote

i have been staring down that stupid puddle since i moved to this city in 2006

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Revolutionary_Bee700 t1_j5xjnio wrote

Many years ago, I rented the basement apartment of the building next to cvs and the giant puddle. The landlords had to lease me another unit before I moved in, because it filled with water.

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pottsnpans t1_j5wtc7b wrote

Back in the late 80s, my first apartment was at 43rd and Baltimore on the second floor over of what is now Clarkville. Back then it was the Wurst House (anyone remember that gem?). All the floors were slightly slanted and over the time we were there a crack, running from the floor to the ceiling slowly grew in my bedroom. I've eaten there a couple of times and it's really nice now.

The living room, where I proposed to my wife, is now the second floor ladies room.

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fritolazee t1_j5xl63r wrote

Thanks for sharing, I love that bit of hyper local history! Also now I get why the business there when I moved in to the area was called Best House.

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catjuggler t1_j5xps1x wrote

Aka best house, right?!

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Buddy_Fluffy t1_j5y29on wrote

Best House replaced Wurst House and then Clarkville replaced Best House.

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jbphilly t1_j5ykqq7 wrote

The most infuriating renaming in history. Did they not understand the concept of a pun?!

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catjuggler t1_j5z4uow wrote

I see it as a continuation of the pun. Clarkville was worse- yuck. Pizza was good though- haven't been there in years so no idea of the current state

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jbphilly t1_j5z9pfr wrote

Clarkville is just a terrible name. I haven't eaten there since pre-covid though so not sure how good the place is nowadays.

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blue-and-bluer t1_j5ziqmm wrote

I grew up eating Wurst House hoagies. I was horrified when they changed the name to Best House, ruining the delightful pun.

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jbphilly t1_j5ykj9h wrote

Now I need to go to Clarkville for first time since covid, just to see this historic site.

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GoldenMonkeyRedux t1_j5vrcz5 wrote

Unless I’m mistaken, the colIapse was between Pine and Osage and only affected porches/cars not homes. The CVS block has never had homes on the east side as it was formerly the Clark estate and then Penn’s Divinity school. The west side was the Burnham estate as of 1899. My 1905 map stops at spruce, so I can’t tell what happened afterwards.

I live nearby and have never heard of anyone’s basement flooding between Spruce and Baltimore on 43rd. Keep in mind the collapse meant they had to rebuild the terra-cotta pipe in large areas. That said, if the city doesn’t regularly clean out the catch basins at Spruce and 43rd, the flooding is terrible. Over a foot-deep pond. I could imagine that getting into Cafe Pho Saigon and the underground apartments on the north-west corner.

My house is fairly close to 43rd and Spruce and I have zero structural issues; however I’ve noticed that my concrete basement floor has lifted in several areas over the last 13 years. Definitely moisture underneath.

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jbphilly t1_j5vxfia wrote

I don't know which Pine/Osage collapse you're talking about. Not one by 43rd Street for sure - all the houses around there are original AFAIK. But yeah, the low-lying corners of 43/Spruce and 43/Baltimore are for sure big flooding zones.

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GoldenMonkeyRedux t1_j5vykcr wrote

Hmmmm…I’ll have to see if I can find info on it. I went to lecture at University of the Sciences about the Mill Creek about 15 years ago. I may be confusing the collapse on Sansom between 43rd and 44th with the smaller one on 43rd. Will try to look into it later.

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GoldenMonkeyRedux t1_j601nru wrote

The more I look into it, the less I can find about what I wrote about, so now I’m questioning if that actually happened. Maybe my memory is jumbled, but I swear there was a collapse south of Spruce on 43rd that took out a bunch of porches and some cars. One little girl fell in but was rescued.

Oh well. I am glad to see it doesn’t run under my house though.

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am_pomegranate t1_j5wa3nf wrote

I'm assuming that was also the cause of the worshipped sinkholes?

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jbphilly t1_j5wdcls wrote

Sure was. And 3.5 years later (holy shit I can't believe it's been that long) the pavement is also crumbling away like crazy in that spot, once again.

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am_pomegranate t1_j5wez4c wrote

Yeah, wasn't the Big Sinkhole like the third in a span of two years

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