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iiioiia t1_ivfnvnw wrote

Reply to comment by eliyah23rd in Michael Shermer argues that science can determine many of our moral values. Morality is aimed at protecting certain human desires, like avoidance of harm (e.g. torture, slavery). Science helps us determine what these desires are and how to best achieve them. by Ma3Ke4Li3

> Given its success, I think I need to turn the question back to you.

No shifting of the burden of proof please.

> Again, I'm not referring to behavior of eminent scientists when speaking outside the strict confines of their field.

So, you disregard any evidence that does not support your beliefs?

> Given that the subject of the thread is values in the normative sense, I think I need to reword that to the "effectiveness" or "truth-orientation in the instrumental sense" instead of "value"

You are welcome to rework your beliefs and restate your claims in a more epistemically sound form if you'd like.

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eliyah23rd t1_ivfr33a wrote

;)

>No shifting of the burden of proof please.

OK. I claim the success of the hard sciences and engineering are the proof of the scientific method.

>So, you disregard any evidence that does not support your beliefs?

Yes. I distinguished between the behavior of some Scientists and the scientific method. Do you believe that all the behavior of any Scientist counts in the evaluation of Science in its idealized form? I propose the "idealized form", while leaving some room for ambiguity, is sufficiently preached in many texts that it have meaningful reference.

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iiioiia t1_ivfrzqq wrote

> OK. I claim the success of the hard sciences and engineering are the proof of the scientific method.

No moving of the goalposts please.

The established point of contention is this:

>> I think Science is flawless here.

> Can you expand on this a bit?

>> So, you disregard any evidence that does not support your beliefs?

> Yes.

Usually people don't admit such flaws in such a straightforward manner, thanks for your honesty.

> Do you believe that all the behavior of any Scientist counts in the evaluation of Science in its idealized form?

Not in its idealized form....that this is how so many scientific materialists like to represent science (as opposed to its true nature) is but one part of what makes me suspicious of it as an institution that holds so much power in out culture.

> I propose the "idealized form", while leaving some room for ambiguity, is sufficiently preached in many texts that it have meaningful reference.

Exactly.

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