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TonyR600 t1_ix3nqba wrote

Please correct me if I'm wrong but for me it sound like actual freedom in political terms would be anarchy and the other one is the freedom we produced by having a state with laws.

So the former is more like a concept that has never been achieved (I imagine even in early nomad like human groups there were some rules that could make you enemy of the group while breaking)

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helpmemakeausername1 t1_ix3qgu3 wrote

Not OP but I agree with you, just want to nitpick a bit - anarchy isn't absence of rules, it's the absence of state. Early nomads were quite possibly anarchic so you're right.

Absolute freedom is a wild concept, even if it's a construct that can never see fruition. Because our actions don't exist in a vacuum and therefore we're restrained by the consequences. I think Sartre says something along those lines?

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Clementea t1_ix3oo86 wrote

Unfortunately, since you are replying for my comment about the summary of OP's writing.

This reply better off be sent towards OP instead of me. I am not the one making this philosophical take, the OP did.

Theres some I agree and some I don't.

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WhittlingDan t1_ix3zog6 wrote

Anarchy in a political sense does not mean no laws. It means no vertical hierarchy however people would still be in leadership/managerial positions chosen and rotated and without absolute authority.

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contractualist OP t1_ix4o113 wrote

Our actually free selves wouldn't create our moral rules, its only a descriptive fact that we experience free will (and this is what we mean when we talk about free will) and its this experience that gives us moral responsibility. It's freedom in the broad sense.

Our consciously free selves is the self that acts in accordance with its higher order principles by reflecting on itself and its actions (or philosophical autonomy). And its this free self that creates our moral rules.

So actual freedom is just possessing free will and conscious freedom is acting in accordance with principles and consequently, the ability to create moral laws.

I'll be discussing these ideas more in future posts if you are interested, but let me know if you'd like me to clarify anything or if there's something I should talk about going forward.

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VitriolicViolet t1_ix5ggz7 wrote

eh, more like the US vs China.

in the US one has freedom to do pretty much whatever (obviously within some bounds) ie you can become rich enough to dismantle society itself and you are 'free' to do so (Jeff Bezos, Musk, Gates etc ie positive freedom: freedom from external interference).

in China one is free to do whatever they want within the context of larger society ie you can become rich but not enough to dismantle society itself (Jack Ma being punished for doing what Gates and Bezos did: vertical integration to the point of being able to effectively blackmail the nation ie negative freedom).

there is no absolute freedom or even a framework for it (even Anarchy has rules just no centralised authority) outside nature.

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