Submitted by Iaskquesti0ns t3_z85dlr in philosophy
Reply to comment by skyntbook in Psychological richness is 1 of 3 primary components of a good life, along with eudaimonia (meaning) and hedonia (pleasure). A psychologically rich life has varied experiences and perspective-changing moments that make life interesting. by Iaskquesti0ns
When I counsel people (I'm a psychologist), particularly the more self-reflecting ones who have anxiety and depression, their philosophical approach to life and figuring out meaning in events take precedence over finding the right stimulation that evokes pleasure.
For some people, taking a hard deterministic POV or a hard free-will-focused POV changes how they interpret their lives. Working with them to figure out their interpretations generally shows them a path where they find meaning and offers them closure. Once they have a sufficiently acceptable answer to many forms of "but why did this happen?" their motivation moves toward something that excites them. Just my 2 cents. I hope you do find meaning.
Hi, sorry. Is there any way you can ELI5? I'm interested in what you're saying but I don't fully get it
Sure, I'll add some context too!
Some of my counseling clients have been very self-aware of their feelings and what works for them. They understand what they are supposed to do to feel better. But they find life is meaningless and don't see any purpose to their behaviors.
When they are in counseling, they focus on "why did this happen," and need answers. Unfortunately, in many situations in life, like a death of a friend, abuse, a series of unfortunate events, etc., we have little control. When people realize this, they bargain and negotiate - "I could've done this to prevent it" - they go into a negative thought pattern of guilt or intrusive thoughts about "what if" scenarios.
At this point, everything comes to their philosophical point of view - did they have control over the events? Did life give them this trauma for things they have done? Did they deserve it?
They try to make sense of the events and keep asking themselves questions about why the trauma happened. Some people adopt a deterministic point of view - what happened couldn't have been prevented. Some adopt a free-will point of view - they made mistakes, and now they have to learn not to make them again.
Those points of view determine how guilty they feel, how desperate they are to change their lives, and how they can move on.
In both cases, the change in perspective gives them meaning; it gives them a reason to change what they are doing. They understand there are more forces at play than they can manage. They learn that, sometimes, they can make decisions all they want, but they won't matter, but they can't know this beforehand.
Changing their deterministic pov to a free-will pov (and vice versa) gives them answers depending on how willing they are to accept fate or exert control:
Now, they find meaning in living in the moment, going on a learning journey, or spending quality time and embracing the good things when they happen. And when they have bad times, they focus on how strong they have become to not collapse during a crisis.
Depression often involves your brain/mind telling itself false stories about bad things happening to you. Often focusing on it being because you're a shitty person and it's your fault and you don't deserve good things, etc. That point of view is inherently toxic to a healthy mind, and it can be more powerful if someone truly believes that everything happening to them is out of their control. Because then, how could they ever change it?
Once people get a wider, wiser perspective on those events they can see that the stories playing in their head are generally false, which clears up a lot of their depressive thoughts.
No, sorry, they’re not false stories. As a recently depressed person I had real stories of personal mistakes and shit happening to me that was a lot at once. I could list them to anyone and they would say, ok, I would be depressed too. All real events.
Then I got a health scare diagnosis that literally said my days on earth were very possibly numbered and short. Overnight my depression went away. From knowing I was dying? On top of all else?
Yes. It shifted, instantly to me focusing on all that’s awesome in my everyday. I forgot all about the little annoyances and past/future concerns. Everything became deep and rich around me. I learned how to love deeply, those in my life because I wanted to milk each moment before I went into the black.
Perspective. The loss and shit of my past was real, but I no longer wasted time thinking about it. I live in the NOW, and ride every tiny beauty inside it. I thrive on what matters in the end now and ignore the rest as there is no time to waste. Depression is a waste of time. Anxiety is a laughable waste of my minutes. Being calm and happy is easy now.
If I escape this somehow, it will be the best thing that ever happened to me.
Depression isn’t about believing lies. It’s about self pity and a wasteful perspective.
When you truly life well, you milk the best around you. Most of the elderly get this, as they feel their mortality deeper.
I've dealt with serious and suicidal depression a couple of times in my life. States of depression absolutely are often brought on by pervasive self "false narratives". And one of the primary ways to treat depression is to gain the mental toolkit to analyze, reassess, and even rewrite those false narratives.
That's the whole underlying premise behind CBT. But don't take my word for it:
I don’t like the word false. They’re not false realities, just overly-focused-on ones.
The word "false" is entirely accurate.
From the link: >Examples of these include beliefs such as, “If I fail at something it means I’m a complete failure” or “If I don’t have someone to love and accept me it means I’m unlovable.”
These are patently false in a way that any Logic 101 student could unpack. Yet, these exact types of narratives are pervasive in clinical depression.
CBT is all about identifying and attacking those false negative narratives.
>taking a hard deterministic POV or a hard free-will-focused POV
Is there someplace that I can learn more about what this means? It sounds very interesting.
Hard Determinism. Every choice you have made, are making, will ever make was pre-determined the instant the universe came into existence. Your entire life is following a pre-set path. Every seeming choice made simply part of the following of that path. You have no free will, it is an illusion. You are not responsible for your actions because you never had any ability to change them. They were predetermined before you even came into existence to take them.
Heady stuff. Based on the logic of cause and effect. Cause has to precede effect. The universe is deterministic, all effects within it had previous cause. We are part of that universe.
Hard Free Will, usually called Libertarian Free Will. None of your choices are pre-determined. Either the universe is not deterministic and or our own choices are not governed by the same laws as the rest of the universe. There are in fact multiple paths you can follow. You are free to choose which path, you are responsible for the path taken.
I heard a bit of metaphysics, myself: if reality is a simulation or physics determines everything ahead of time, you're just walking through the motions and nothing is of consequence. However, if there is some sort of randomness generated in your brain, you can change and move the world with your actions, giving quite a bit more meaning to what you do and say.
Intuitively, if you didn't drive that truck full of food, people would go hungry. But, if you're brain is a computer that somebody programmed, you can know that and still feel like a robot doing the "right" thing, the best you can, according to programming
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