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tutier09 t1_j5lfu53 wrote

That's actually not true. There are dogs with allergies or dogs that are not allowed to consume animal protein (for a short time) for medical reasons. This food is specifically made for them.

Vegans feeding their dogs this food is animal abuse, though. Don't do that, they're carnivores!

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fnarpus t1_j5nvsyf wrote

Is it wrong to harm animals or something?

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NiftyJet t1_j5lixoq wrote

>they're carnivores!

Dogs are omnivorous, like humans. Even wild wolves get some food from plants. Dogs don't need meat to survive, but they have to be fed a carefully balanced diet to be vegetarian (which I guess is what this product tries to do).

Cats on the other hand are true carnivores. They need meat to survive. So when you hear stories of people feeding cats a 100% plant-based diet, that actually is abusive and will lead to their death eventually.

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tutier09 t1_j5lk85g wrote

Dog is order Carnivora. Their digestive system differs from let's say a pig or a human. Dogs can survive without meat (unless cats, that's right) but they cannot strive without it.

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porcupineporridge t1_j5lht87 wrote

Vegan? It says vegetarian right there on the bag.

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Top-Philosophy-5791 t1_j5lgc56 wrote

Google is your friend. Scientific, veterinarian backed advice says a vegan and definitely a vegetarian diet for dogs is perfectly healthy.

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Hung_Hefty_Parsnip OP t1_j5lh0fj wrote

Google said ... Dogs are omnivores, which means that they eat both meat and plant products. While it is theoretically possible, the British Veterinary Association does not recommend giving a dog a vegetarian or a vegan diet as it is much easier to get the balance of essential nutrients wrong than to get it right.

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Unity_Be t1_j5lif6d wrote

Which is precisely why products like this are created. So that regular individuals can have safe products for their pets. Cats going vegan or vegetarian can kill them because they are Carnivores, dogs are Omnivores meaning they can eat and survive off either diet.

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Popular_Comfort7544 t1_j5o37es wrote

> the British Veterinary Association does not recommend giving a dog a vegetarian or a vegan diet

Imagine picking and misrepresenting what someone said. This is what British Veterinary Association said about vegan diet:
"advice is to always talk to your vet before changing any aspect of your pet’s diet"
https://www.bva.co.uk/news-and-blog/blog-article/is-it-safe-to-feed-my-dog-a-plant-based-diet-hold-the-greens-only-meals-why-the-jury-is-still-out-on-vegan-dog-diets/

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Hung_Hefty_Parsnip OP t1_j5p6kr2 wrote

I didn't say that they did. Learn to read and comprehend. Then you'll be able to comment accordingly.

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Unity_Be t1_j5p8pw2 wrote

For your reading and comprehension then: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/apr/13/vegan-diets-are-healthier-and-safer-for-dogs-study-suggests

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Hung_Hefty_Parsnip OP t1_j5p9fvz wrote

To be fair, I can now post other studies that say exactly the opposite if I wanted to. Canines eat meat naturally in nature. There are studies that say grain free, high animal protein is best also. Also ones that say grain/meat diets are best. Google will kill you eventually if you let it.

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Unity_Be t1_j5pa391 wrote

Sure, but can you find a study that is authentically peer reviewed, has this number of subjects, allows for nuance, and also states the opposite?

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aelinno t1_j5m360o wrote

Pet nutritionist here: I recommend foods like this one for short periods of time (8-16 weeks) to start fresh with zero animal proteins then introduce them back one at a time when having a hard time figuring out what protein a dog could be allergic to. It’s a helpful tool, but most (qualified) people wouldn’t recommend this long term. I’m sure some people who eat vegan / vegetarian use it that way but it’s not the intended use of this food as created.

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giogiobunbun t1_j5lfohw wrote

i don't think that food exists for that reason. it probably exists so owners can add fresh meat. or it exists for common dietary issues in dogs

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Hung_Hefty_Parsnip OP t1_j5lg9u9 wrote

Is that why it claims complete & balanced nutrition? Because you're supposed to add meat?

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RoyalTopaz77 t1_j5lhan1 wrote

There are minimal levels of nutrition pet foods need to meet for calories, protein, fats, etc. So long as the food meets those levels, they can call it nutritionally complete no matter what the sources of those values come from.

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giogiobunbun t1_j5lgp7w wrote

most likely yes. fresh meat is a lot better for dogs than the stuff in kibble

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PlantainImpossible35 t1_j5ngom0 wrote

I’ve worked in vet clinics for the last 10 years, and we sell vegetarian diets for canine patients who need them. It’s typically for dogs who need a low protein diet due to specific health concerns. But it is still nutritionally balanced and can be used as a maintenance diet.

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Unity_Be t1_j5ljdtw wrote

Seriously all, the definition of the word Omnivore is an animal that can eat and survive off of plants and animal protein. I understand the concern, but I know many dogs who eat vegetable based diets and are completely fine, if not healthier than dogs who eat cheaply made animal products. They live longer and healthier. If you feed Cats diets of plants, yes it's animal abuse, because Cats are Carnivores. Dogs are Omnivores!

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Hung_Hefty_Parsnip OP t1_j5pa2ki wrote

Just because dogs are omnivores doesn't mean their owner should play god and decide that they're now vegetarians just because they're against killing chickens.

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Margidoz t1_j5pmcbx wrote

Playing God: Giving a dog a diet that doesn't depend on unnecessarily harming animals

Not playing God: Unnecessarily harming countless animals to match your preference

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BitterSecretary_ t1_j5o25v8 wrote

You claim dogs are omnivores but also that they can eat like a herbivore and be completely fine. LOL

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Unity_Be t1_j5p7tls wrote

'An omnivore is an animal that has the ability to eat and survive on both plant and animal matter.[3] Obtaining energy and nutrients from plant and animal matter, omnivores digest carbohydrates, protein, fat, and fiber, and metabolize the nutrients and energy of the sources absorbed.[4] Often, they have the ability to incorporate food sources such as algae, fungi, and bacteria into their diet.' - from Wikipedia. Omnivore means that an animal can eat like a herbivore or carnivore and be completely fine. I understand your confusion, and accept your mockery. Also: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/apr/13/vegan-diets-are-healthier-and-safer-for-dogs-study-suggests . Hope this helps!

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Hung_Hefty_Parsnip OP t1_j5pagwt wrote

GD. I would hate to know you. I feel sorry AF for your SO. Bossy and annoying know it all. You realize you can find stuff on the internet to backup any side of any argument?

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Unity_Be t1_j5pbe7d wrote

Mate, I accept all your attacks! Whatever helps you feel better.

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Hung_Hefty_Parsnip OP t1_j5pcc2i wrote

I wish i did feel better. Cool avatar though.

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Unity_Be t1_j5pcief wrote

Thanks. Truly don't mean to be in a fight. Just trying to respond about a subject that people get upset about. Srsly if this were cat food, I'd be on your side!!

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johndoe73684168 t1_j5lo2is wrote

I heard a commercial on the radio today about vegan cat and dog food. The woman said things like how your pet sometimes might feel guilty about killing. I could not believe what I heard, the site is even weirder, they want to make vegan pet food the norm... it's vegavriend.nl (vegafriend) if you don't believe this. I'll never serve my cats vegan food, except one has a food allergy and I haven't thought of it (I only have 2 brands atm) she might not get a reaction but I know her she doesn't go for anything other than meat. But other than that, their main food will always be meat.

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Ok-Mammoth1143 t1_j5lkvhl wrote

People that feed their dogs this deserve to be eaten alive by their dogs when they fall down the stairs and can’t move

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Hung_Hefty_Parsnip OP t1_j5p68lw wrote

Typical Vegan comments in here. Always trying to make others miserable. Even their pets. Y'all are mean AF.

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Unity_Be t1_j5p92fe wrote

You brought up a subject by condemning people, then can't handle the rational arguments people are having with you. Don't talk down to people and then get upset when they respond.

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Sookmebeautiful t1_j5le4nj wrote

Animal abuse

Edit uh oh the crazies found me

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Objective-Passion-90 t1_j5lfchm wrote

animal abuse is the industrialised slaughter of billions of sentient creatures

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Freebite t1_j5lj55e wrote

I find this argument extremely lacking in persuasive power to lead people to more vegetarian diets. It often comes across as aggressive and accusatory, something people tend to get defensive over and thus more "against" you as their interlocutor. It'd be much better instead to focus on the proven environmental and health benefits of eating much less, or even no, meat/animal products.

The emotional "it's animal abuse" argument is totally countered by one simple statement.

"I don't care"

And because it's an appeal to emotion it doesn't actually really matter if it seems inconsistent either with their response to "well would you eat your dog" for which is a common retort to that.

Edited for clarity on what my whole point here actually was.

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Objective-Passion-90 t1_j5lnwc2 wrote

you do what you want

I don't care

your lack of any empathy is your problem

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Freebite t1_j5looz4 wrote

Ah so doubling down on the accusations. Nice. I wouldn't really call it a lack of empathy as much as simple human nature. Do you get heartbroken over someone dying whom you've never met and have no ties to? No? Then you have a lack of empathy by this logic. This is also why the appeal to emotion argument often holds no real weight in my experience.

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Objective-Passion-90 t1_j5lqw07 wrote

Dried cat and dog food is sold on % protein.

Premium foods having higher protein levels

What is this protein?

it is a product called chicken flour.

Chicken flour is the end of meat processing. Anything left after mechanical recovery is dehydrated and then ground into a meal.

Vegan pet food replaces that protein with soya. Vegan pet food is fortified with taurine.

Whilst perfectly safe for dogs the jury is out on vegan cat food as a total replacement.

The antipathy towards vegetable based dog food is pathetic.

I have seen every commercially farmed animal slaughtered and processed. It should be mandatory for plus 16 year olds to visit a slaughterhouse and witness the realities of modern industrial meat processing.

So happy to see billions of animals killed but horrified that a dog is fed a perfectly safe vegetable based alternative

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Freebite t1_j5ltmhj wrote

Did you see me say anything about the dog being fed a vegetarian diet? No. I was simply giving advice on how you might convince more people to adjust their eating habits in a better way with the added benefit of explaining why your current manner of arguing for it is flawed. That appeal to emotion argument works for some, but not a lot, of people. If that's somehow "evil" then feel free to ignore everything I've said.

As for 16 year olds visiting things like that, i honestly agree. That's around the age where you should be shown some uncomfortable stuff, and allow them to come to their own conclusions for these topics. It may work to help lower meat consumption, it may also do almost nothing at all. I've seen it myself, and while it's not, lets say ideal for the animal, it is efficient and for the amount we eat as a society, that efficiency is kind of required.

If we ate less, I'm not even arguing for none either necessarily, we could significantly lower the need for industrialized animal farming like that. It would have a ton of benefits.

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Sookmebeautiful t1_j5lk1qn wrote

Forcing an animal to be vegan is abuse not “emotional”

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Freebite t1_j5lkrd3 wrote

Notice how i made no comment at all about feeding an animal a vegan diet in my comment? Yeah there is a reason for that lol. I edited it a bit to make it more clear the specific thing i was targeting in my response though.

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WiseChoices t1_j5lei7h wrote

Incredible ignorance.

They don't deserve a pet.

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