We are considering a move from the Bay Area to Pittsburgh area. Mistake? Alternatives?

Submitted by No-Camp9363 t3_yzkg6m in pittsburgh

We were looking to move back east and looking at the suburbs of Pittsburgh after 16 years out west to get away from natural disasters (been there, done that), high cost of living ($1.5mil for a 3 bedroom shack) and to hope to be able afford basics and a second car. So, where in the country can you move to have relative safety, culture, museums, art and music, good schools, a large yard with grass, four seasons including snow in the winter, at least some liberals and a nice 4 bedroom house that costs less than $500,000? To most of the country that high price is outrageous. Here you can't rent a house for under $4000 a month. Pittsburgh on paper seems to fit the bill. I watched a video on youtube dissing PA and Pittsburgh and my son said he doesn't want to go now. I don't blame him after seeing that. I know all places have good and bad. My family is 2 hours away and my mother's health isn't great. I can't afford to fly my kids home to see family and they are missing out on knowing their grandparents. There are so many reason to move east, more than stay out west. We would love to live in the next big town over from us here, but there is little chance we can afford it and schools are not great.

We have two younger kids. I am from NE Ohio so I know what winter in. My spouse is from Western PA and has lived everywhere including Chicago, Atlanta, NE US, NorCal and Socal etc etc.

Right now we have two seasons, fire season and cold/wet. Our house gets zero sun Oct-May. I am not crazy about moving to a cloudier and wetter area, but Pittsburg does have snow and we actually want snow.

Education and culture is very important. I miss midwestern folks. I have found it hard to mesh with people here and they don't feel very genuine. Not all people, but it is a very small clicky town. I don't really care about eating out, but having access to shopping would be helpful. Until two months ago, I had to drive 80 minutes RT to get to a Target. With gas at $6.99 a gallon, it just about kills you.

We went through a lot with the wildfires in 2020. Although our house is ok, our property still burned and my kids still talk about the evacuation. Every storm they are scared of lighting. Every wind they ask if a tree is going to fall on the house. Every large truck going buy, they think it is an earthquake. Every big rain (if it rains) they worry about debris flows which we have had to evacuate from, just in case. I would love for them to feel safe and not on edge preparing for red flag warnings. Same for myself.

My husband was diagnosed with a rare aggressive cancer last year. Although his treatment was a success, if the cancer metastasizes, we need to be around good doctors.

Boston area is on the list, but it is still very expensive and I don't see a lot for younger kids to do (amusement parks, kid centered museums, play places etc). Yes, parks are great but not in the winter. Boston also seems very stuffy (Not to offend anyone, just a stereotype that seems to stick).

I have looked at upstate NY, but I know very little about the towns. We cannot afford NYC and I want a lawn. Like a real backyard with grass. Actual grass, not mulch or astroturf because you are in a drought.

Durham, NC seems ok. I am not terribly excited by it looking online. Like PA it is in a much more conservative state and that could be an issue.

I have thought about staying out west and going to Seattle. Cost of living is still high and they still deal with wildfire smoke and earthquakes. However, Pittsburgh air quality is a very big concern especially with little ones with sensitive lungs.

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If I could travel with my family for a year to try out different places I would, but that is not an option. We just want a good, safe home with a flat yard to out up a swing set and access to fun because god only knows after the last few year we need as much as we can get.

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pAul2437 t1_ix0hcfk wrote

Suburbs of Pittsburgh sound perfect for you.

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More-Adhesiveness-54 t1_ix0iv9r wrote

I watched a video on youtube dissing PA and Pittsburgh and my son said he doesn't want to go now. I don't blame him after seeing that.

Name a major city, there's at least a dozen youtube videos crapping on it. Especially when you have clowns like this guy that travel to every post-industrial/rust belt city in the U.S. seemingly with the sole intent of being negative and stirring up shit.

I wouldn't let that dissuade you unless you saw something very specific to the area that concerned you.

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PM_ME_YOUR_PANTSU t1_ix3zzg5 wrote

Unrelated but the man in that video who that clown said wears too much cologne (I’ll admit it’s true) is literally my upstairs neighbor and he’s really nice guy I’ll show him this when I get home.

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Elouiseotter t1_ix0gsps wrote

UPMC Hillman is a great cancer center and if you need to go up to Boston there are direct flights.

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DarkKnyt t1_ix17o3p wrote

And they are putting the bow on a massive expansion specifically for cancer.

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ballsonthewall t1_ix0g85f wrote

I think you'd do fine here based on what you wrote. Some neighborhoods and suburbs are better than others for activities and politics. Don't get too far outside of city limits for that.

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newtypezaku t1_ix0hvyc wrote

Like everywhere else, in Pennsylvania the cities are blue and the empty space around them is red. Most of Allegheny County is probably fine, as the suburbs are mixed and the quality of schools tends to increase the farther away you get from the city.

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kderr t1_ix0jw5d wrote

Every place has its pros and cons but Pittsburgh sounds like exactly what you want.

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sinjacy t1_ix11l2x wrote

Where would you be working? We don't not have Bay Area traffic by any means but there can still be some shitty commutes depending on where you live and where you work.

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No-Camp9363 OP t1_ix16fa6 wrote

Hopefully my husband could remain with his company. He already works remotely from home. He would likely have to take a paycut.

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No-Scrubs-1974 t1_ix1q94l wrote

You will be fine here. Everything you say says come here. If you can stand the weather, you are golden. Look for a good school district and don’t worry about the kids. There’s plenty to do here. It’s what you make of it. Entirely up to you whether it’s positive or negative

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BusyPhase t1_ix0ngzy wrote

I came here from Colorado after similar issues you described. Honestly, it's been great. There's always going to be issues, as you said, but they seem to be relatively confined to those areas. Pittsburgh has been described as a checkerboard in this regard. Its not as simple as north or south. The people here are very friendly and upfront. The west is famous for the fake nice front they put on. As for the political side of things, it's the same as every other city; the further away you are, the more conservative it gets.

The schools out here are wonderful from what I understand. I always grew up hearing that east coast schools are two years ahead of the west coast and it seems to be true. My girlfriend moved between both and confirmed it. If you purchase a home, be prepared to pay the taxes for those schools. They can be pretty high.

One thing that I experienced was the shock of infrastructure. Your kids will especially notice it. Quite a few things here are old. It doesn't have that amazing look of a state on the west coast. I'm not saying it's bad, but it's not going to be cali/tokyo. However, I often see posts about people loving the look/wanting to conserve it. You may not like it immediately, my family didn't, but it grew on us.

As for your husband, someone else made a great recommendation. UPMC.

One of the biggest things we've come to love here is the sense of community. There's always something going on in our town. Always something to get the kids out. PPG basically has its own Rockefeller that we're very excited about going to. You're also a weekend trip away from NYC, Chicago, and Niagara falls.

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ramcatt t1_ix12nlz wrote

Yeah… I want to see this video

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Upbeat_Estimate1501 t1_ix23nwj wrote

I grew up in the midwest, moved to the East Coast, then to here, so for context OP price wise I'd say Pgh is a good fit cost of living wise. I was considering California but decided against it due to exactly what you mentioned. I think price is kind of a HUGE selling point if you want to take financial stress off your backs, but if you want to live near family that's understandable too.

I'm sure some of the pros/cons you've already seen in the videos and have been mentioned here. Pros: price, kind of that small town-ish feel, we have a good healthcare system (as someone with a disability it's as good as we get in the US, often specialists don't as for a referral), culture is decent, school districts decent depending on where you're looking, sports if you're into that. Cons: pollution, lack of diversity, can feel very small town-ish (good or bad), allergy season is getting worse, weather, nightlife (depending what you or your kids are into). As you mentioned PA is a toss-up politically, flying by the seat of our purple pants each election. Noticed this pass summer also everyone's lawns were a lot more brown due to the heat :/, but you'd be able to get a yard, maybe even a garden.

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No-Camp9363 OP t1_ix26sjt wrote

Thank you. We moved to the Bay area for work and it has not been easy. Living in the redwoods is great in theory, but it is beyond challenging. Rents have doubled in the last 5 years. Houses here aren't nice and you pay triple than PA. A house that is a tear down will cost about $800k. And cost of living is going up. Our water bill with just doing basic house cleaning (no lawn or gardens) is $150 a month where my sil in Vegas with a pool pays $30.

I am ok with varying political stances and a balanced one can be good as long as people are civil. There are plenty of right leaning conservatives in the mountains here and there isn't exactly culture unless you have arm sleeves or commute to Silicon Valley.

Our allergy season is beyond horrible. I was hoping to escape to somewhere easier to breathe, but might not ever. We also have a bad mold problem here. We have pollution from wood burning stoves, farming and wildfire smoke, but no factories or much traffic. Some years the sky is orange from fires and you can't go outside or open a window.

We don't get rain from March until October or November. It is pretty boring having no variation. I never thought I would miss rain. I might kick myself someday for saying that.

Those are many of the areas I am hoping to better for us. I hope to visit the town soon. Thanks for all of the help!

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No-Camp9363 OP t1_ix0odnd wrote

Thank you for all of the replies. It does feel like a good fit. I actually feel really excited about the area. I have looked and researched online for two years trying to find the right place, not just one that is good enough. There is no perfect place, but I want better.

We are in the mountains south of SF. It takes two hours to get there so we don't go often.

True that it is not the midwest. I forget that. My family is all still in the Canton/Akron area of Ohio.

What suburbs should we focus on? I would like good schools that support gifted children and well as those with delays. My son is in first grade and fits the bill for both, but our district won't give him much assistance because they are not funded.

I do worry about the air. I have read conflicting opinions on it, but my 4 yr daughter has viral asthma after an rsv infection as a newborn and her lungs will likely never fully heal. She needs breathing treatments with every cold and has chronic sinus issues.

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BusyPhase t1_ix0r1jv wrote

As for what suburbs to focus on, I'm sure the locals will know better than I, but I've heard great things about Upper Saint Claire, Fox Chapel, Mt Lebanon, and North Allegheny school district being the best (McCandless.)

As for the air quality, look online to see if you can find statistics over the past couple of years and compare it to places your children have been. Everyone seems to be all over the place with their opinions of it.

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pAul2437 t1_ix3iv8t wrote

Neither Ross nor sewickley are north Allegheny

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countrymanor t1_ix1149q wrote

For ease of getting to and from Akron/Canton I would recommend the Northern and Western suburbs. Sewickley and Moon are very nice in the West. Sewickley has a very cute/quaint downtown area. Gibsonia, Pine Township and Cranberry are also very nice in the North/North Hills areas. Moon and Sewickley are 20 minutes from the city but have a fairly easy commute into the Downtown area for access to hospitals etc. when needed and you don't have to deal with the the daily hassle of the roads/ traffic situations that exist in some of the closer in neighborhoods where you generally also get much smaller homes with much smaller lots.

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No-Scrubs-1974 t1_ix1qlzy wrote

South Fayette school district was always high rated. And it’s not close to any mills that I can think of. air quality in the mon valley area usually sucks thanks to Clairton works. That can reach out towards homestead too. But you wouldn’t wanna go to that district anyway.

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dingurth1 t1_ix2c2bv wrote

regarding the air, I think the locals make a bigger fuss about it than is warranted. Yes there are bad parts downwind from plants, but those are easy to look up and avoid. If you're in a suburb you're going to be pretty ok.

For reference, I recently relocated from LA, which typically has 80 days per year where the air is bad enough that people with asthma should be on high alert. In Pittsburgh its only 15 days per year. I'm not sure what the northern CA numbers are but I assume they're closer to LA than Pittsburgh so I think a move here would be a similar improvement in air quality.

With everything else I think Pittsburgh fits your bill. It did for me and so far I love it here.

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SaturnRisingReddit t1_ix3qfx7 wrote

Check the air quality reports when you are looking at neighborhoods. There are nice suburbs north, south, and east of the city proper - you can find mixed density and single-family zoned. (Mixed for the win). The main hospitals are in the central Oakland area and it is not difficult to get to them from almost anywhere, and it is not difficult to get downtown usually. Normal mid-sized city traffic. Hillman Center center is great and CHP in Lawrenceville is a regional magnet for your kid. (I am biased I work for them)

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[deleted] t1_ix25qgj wrote

I’m over in Philly with the long term goal of moving to Pittsburgh (originally from WV). My husband is from Hawaii but moved to California at 18 and was there for 15 years. One thing we have been surprised is how many Californians are out this way. It is culturally very different but they all said they felt like they could breath out here in terms of having a decent life that didn’t cause financial stress. I don’t know why so many Californians are moving to Texas. Even the “conservative” ones are all moving to liberal Austin but outside Austi the state government is insane. In any event, my artist husband absolutely loves Pittsburgh and was the one who suggested we end up back there. It’s like a smaller version of Philly but still has incredible art and culture, lots of beautiful green hills, and a friendly vibe. I think you’d fit in perfectly in Allegheny area and, coming from CA, the higher taxes will still seem “cheap” - We drove by the water department once in Pittsburgh and they had a big waterfall out front and my husband was like “oh yeah, there is actually enough water out here you can do that unlike California where we are all going to die from fires” - there are a lot of great qualities in California and he misses quite a bit but there is just no way we could ever move back

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No-Camp9363 OP t1_ix27xeb wrote

This is refreshing to hear for sure and I love knowing that I might fit in. My husband will be happy too. Maybe even better than CA. I can't do Texas. I am sure Austin is cool, but I would really feel out of my element. And the south is just too hot. Our park department let the grasses die when in hot as hell Vegas they have HUGE green parks with water spouts for the kids to play in everywhere. It's crazy how the simple little things make such a huge difference. I will look into higher taxes. I am ok if they go to something like good schools. My son can't even get the proper support he needs for speech and social skills and they JUST put in a portable air conditioner in the classrooms because there is no central air. No one has it. It was 108 for a week while the kids suffered with no a/c. There has to be better.

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[deleted] t1_ix2bd84 wrote

There are some really great school districts. Not sure how high property taxes are but research and you’ll be pretty content I think. I travel for work and Austin is turning into LA with the traffic, sprawl, and flashy money image rich lifestyle. You’ll run into a bit of MAGA type in PA but in and around the cities is fine. PA is a true swing state but over all I’d say it’s center/center leftish with different parts of the states clearly on certain sides of political spectrum. If you want to move where your vote truly makes a difference then PA is a great spot. It isn’t all roses and daises and it took my husband a good year to get adjusted (but remember, I’m in Philly. Philly is a beast lol) but he’s very content here. What he appreciates is how people don’t mask who they are - if they have money and like nice things, they’ll buy nice things. If they have money but couldn’t care less about things and just hoard money, they do it. If people don’t want to wear make up, they don’t. If they want to, then they do it. If they want to drive a car for 15 years because they’ve paid it off 10 years ago and they literally don’t care what others think, they do it. Especially coming from image conscious Southern California, he just thinks it’s really cool there isn’t a rat race of constantly trying to impress everyone - people just more genuine.

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Affectionate_Crab773 t1_ix3gh6d wrote

So true, Pittsburghers don't put on airs, not super 'image-conscious'! You can create the life you want here.

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NostalgicAdolescents t1_ix3lthh wrote

I lived in So Cal most of my life and love living in Pittsburgh. There’s already paragraphs others have posted, so I’ll say this:

The cloudiness we have is NOT like in the west coast. I lived in Portland for a few years. The cloudiness there is relentless and the sun hardly ever pokes through. Here, you’ll have a stint of that from time to time, but it’s broken up by being mostly cloudy with plenty of sun bleeding through. Also, it typically rains heavy and stops. So no constant drizzling - I don’t miss that AT ALL.

P.S. Upper Saint Claire, Mt. Lebanon, Sewickly, Squirrel Hill are excellent choices for suburbs not too far from downtown. The people here are awesome as well.

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No-Camp9363 OP t1_ix3odex wrote

Thank you! I am more worried for my husband dealing with clouds than myself. He really did not like visiting SF when I lived closer.

I really hate the wet drizzle. Our summers in the mountains are hot, but the last two summers on the coast have been dark, gloomy with a constant wet drizzle and no real warmth until September. I will look at those areas for sure.

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Human-Alternative-40 t1_ix24dbd wrote

Check out Ben Avon. The Avonworth school district is great and you'll be about 15 minutes from everything (Target, museums, downtown, the mall). There's a food truck every Friday during the warmer months, a great neighborhood to take walks, a cute coffee shop, lots of little family friendly events (Halloween parade, Fall Festival, etc.) and there are tons of playgrounds.

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Affectionate_Crab773 t1_ix3f2lq wrote

I second this advice, Ben Avon is a really lovely spot not too far from downtown. We didnt know about it when we moved here, unfortunately, or would have considered it.

As a family we moved here after 26 years of military (Navy) life. Our kids were in 3rd & 4th grade at the time. This was in 2000. Since I was teaching at UPitt & my husband was working out of RIDC park in O'Hara Township, we chose to buy in Highland Park & send the kids to private school. Moving here was a great decision for the whole family. We made great, long-lasting friendships, the kids got a top-notch education & we have never been bored at all.

We had had lived in Kansas City (our hometown), San Francisco (back when Treasure Island & Mare Island were still Navy bases); Puget Sound (Bremerton), Washington; Honolulu, Hawaii; Groton, Connecticut; Charleston, SC; Norfolk, VA; and Boston area (Andover). Pittsburgh offers a very affordable lifestyle compared to those other places, except KC, of course. The people are friendly & down to earth here. A good mixture of midwest & east coast sensibilities, imo.

Pros:

  • cost of living,
  • 4 seasons,
  • beautiful neighborhoods where you can live within city limits (Squirrel Hill, Shadyside, Highland Park, Regent Square, Edgewood, all good options)
  • the schools! I teach in Fox Chapel & the schools are excellent. Lots of programs for gifted students & students with special needs. Caring teachers. Definitely check out neighborhoods in FC, including adorable Aspinwall. There are many, many more school districts that are really good: Riverview (Oakmont, Verona boroughs), Quaker Valley (Sewickley borough et. al.), Avonworth (Ben Avon et. al.), North Hills, Pine Richland, Hampton. Shaler is a popular spot for many of my co-teachers with children & they seem happy with the schools there. South of the city excellent districts to consider: Mount Lebanon, Upper St. Clair, Keystone Oaks. City of Pittsburgh Public Schools is also a good option, depending on the area of the city. Alderdice high school is very good with a more diverse population than you'll find in the suburbs.
  • the arts: there are wonderful museums all over the city & a very vibrant theatre scene
  • the restaurants- eating out is very popular here
  • the public parks- there are a ton of beautiful parks with all kinds of amenities (check out Frick, Schenley, Highland Park as a start)
  • the zoo & aviary & Phipps Botanical gardens
  • the views & hills & rivers, check out Mt Washinton or Perry Hilltop, stunning views!
  • a fascinating history of immigrants settling here from all over. so we have Polish Hill, Deutschtown, Bloomfield area (very Italian), Squirrel Hill with many practicing Jewish families. check out the Cathedral of Learning at UPittsburgh for more about the immigrant groups
  • lots of universities & medical care facilities
  • boating & biking are popular here

Cons:

  • the infrastructure is old & needs work
  • their is a grittiness & certain bleakness to be found in many areas
  • when you leave the city proper, it turns politically conservative very fast
  • I have heard it can be a very racist city for people of color, particularly blacks
  • you wont find a large number of hispanic people or great mexican/cuban food here, unfortunately
  • the weather can be very grey for long periods of time with a lot of rainy days. gets gloomy & if you are highly affected by that is can be rough
  • the air quality needs to be improved
  • not close to the ocean & a bit of a drive to the cities on eastern seaboard
  • some people can get in their own little neighborhood 'bubbles' here & that causes a lack of exploration or interest in other areas.

Think that about sums it up! Come visit & check it out! and feel free to hit me up with any other questions or advice. I'll try to answer & help as best I can, or point you in the right direction.

Best of luck to you & your family💝

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No-Camp9363 OP t1_ix3ukg2 wrote

Wow! Thank you for so much information! It is amazing to have multiple good school options. Our town in CA doesn't have much diversity. My 6 yr son is very curious about languages and other cultures and is teaching himself German. My daughter would miss the ocean, but maybe we could actually afford to go on a family vacation!

I grew up in an industrial town in Ohio and I was always very proud of this fact. People worked hard. I remember when I first moved to Los Angeles how different the workforce was. I was actually told not to do so much because I made the other workers look bad.

I hope we do make it to visit at the very least and cross fingers it is a good fit for all. We are pretty nice folks and I would love to be a part of a good community and find a way to support it.

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Affectionate_Crab773 t1_ix4azae wrote

Kudos to your son! I teach French & Cultural Studies here & love to see students being passionate about other languages & cultures. Has your son used Duolingo for German? It is free & fun.

You sound like nice people & I think you'd fit in well here. Hope it works out!😊

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caseyjohnsonwv t1_ix43xcc wrote

It sounds like y'all would love the south suburbs, something like Mount Lebanon. You can't stray too far from the city if you still want to see "some liberals," but the immediate south hills are great for that. I would even look at Dormont, although the houses will be a little smaller. It's technically a borough and not a separate suburb, which I believe (?) has some tax implications. Can't describe how because I've never lived there.

Niche, but in terms of cancer treatment, my dad used to travel to Pittsburgh for the UPMC Hillman Cancer Center when he was facing late-stage skin cancer. We lived over 3 hours away in West Virginia and they sent him all the way up here; it's a very good facility.

I think you've done your research very well and this could absolutely be the place for you.

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timesuck t1_ix0jme0 wrote

While I don’t think you should necessarily cross Pittsburgh off your list, I’ll say I think there are going to be a lot of things you don’t like once you get here. The people take a lot of warming up to and you will have some. . .challenging interactions. Pittsburgh is NOT The Midwest and if you do not have family here it can be hard to find your rhythm.

Also, coming from a large metro, as an adult, you will be bored. Just prepare. Pittsburgh has museums, sure, but ultimately it is small. You won’t have the same access to food and entertainment that you would in a larger area. Also this can be an issue if you ever want to switch jobs. Opportunities can be limited depending on your field.

The air quality sucks. Everyone loves to pretend it’s not a problem, but it is. New cracker plant just opened and we continue to let the local steel mills in town continually pump garbage into the air. You will feel it and smell it.

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Upbeat_Estimate1501 t1_ix22hxt wrote

Also I have to say moving here from the east coast I was NOT prepared for the weather. the cloudiness and Seasonal Affective Disorder completely demolished me my first few years, took me a while to get used to not seeing the sun. I'm used to hard winter, but not just clouds and more clouds.

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mabellerose t1_ix23y7y wrote

> Also, coming from a large metro, as an adult, you will be bored.

Prior to moving to Pittsburgh, I lived my entire adult life in Chicago and LA, and so far I don’t find myself bored here at all. While there aren’t as many offerings, and they aren’t as diverse, I find whatever I want to do here to be much more accessible, especially compared to LA, because the traffic is easier, the cost is lower, the crowds smaller, the weather’s sometimes milder (yes, really, sometimes it is), and there’s not so much gatekeeping, one way or another. YMMV.

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timesuck t1_ix2dbn4 wrote

I think it’s exactly like you said. YMMV. I also moved here from LA and while I can see what you’re saying (except about the weather), things being easier is not enough to make up for the lack of things to do for everyone.

I’ve been here for awhile now and this is a small town. I’ve watched a lot of friends come here from the coasts and go back to the coasts. You have to accept the lower cost of living options along with the lower cost of living and that’s not for everyone. I wish I would have had a clearer idea of that before I moved.

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Legitimate_Plum9 t1_ix2hmjv wrote

>The air quality sucks. Everyone loves to pretend it’s not a problem, but it is. New cracker plant just opened and we continue to let the local steel mills in town continually pump garbage into the air. You will feel it and smell it.

The sky was literally orange in the bay area not that long. Maybe Pittsburgh has air quality problems but I've never walked outside and thought the sky was on fire.

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BusyPhase t1_ix0oixm wrote

I've been here for a year now and still don't understand the issue with air quality. The AQI is always so much better than any other place I've lived. I never "feel it or smell it." I'm definitely not a fan of the cracker plant though. At least it's far north.

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timesuck t1_ix15f0i wrote

This article does a pretty good job of summing up the current state of things.

We did not have many inversions and Code Orange days this summer (thank goodness), but 2020-2021 was brutal. Consistently the city smells bad enough that there’s an app to track it. It’s definitely a problem, especially for those with respiratory issues and over the long term.

A lot of it also depends on your distance from the emitters. You’re less likely to experience it if you are at an elevation or further away from the problems (Edgar Thompson and McConway and Torley).

edit: here’s an article about our area’s increased cancer risk because of pollution.

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BusyPhase t1_ix16dkx wrote

No wonder I've never noticed it. Every city I've lived in has had worst air quality. 😂 Thank you for the info! OP should be fine considering the worst air quality is mainly CA.

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WRWhizard t1_ix10tp0 wrote

Well. I'm a lifer. Stuff I don't like about the Pittsburgh area is not much. They won't do what it takes to make the Pirates a winning team. I'm in the eastern suburbs and it's all good out here.

You like liberal and not so good with conservative? Not to worry. The Liberal machine has had control of Pennsylvania for a long time. That does kind of make the state suck in a lot of ways but if you're from California, you'll never notice.

Pittsburgh does have arts and entertainment.

Wait a minute... you are an avowed liberal, hmm. Yea Boston, Seattle are much much nicer places. The snow here sucks, we record the most gloomy days of any city in America. Yea. Forget Pittsburgh.

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