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peon2 OP t1_j6ih221 wrote

Reply to comment by Brak710 in Is everyone's utilities pricing insane or am I getting screwed? by peon2

I'm not entirely sure. We are gas heat but for some reason our water heaters are electric so that probably is a big part of it.

But our dishwasher is new and the washer/dryer aren't super old so they should probably be fairly efficient. And we wash our clothes on cold. My fiance works from home and usually has a TV on as background noise all day but my calculations say that leaving a smart TV on for an entire month straight should just total about 42 KwH

Duquesne Light claims we used 1470 kwH over the last 30 days.

Some googling says the average household use is 850/mo and as 2 people in a reasonable size home I feel like we should come under the average not over.

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Showerbeerz413 t1_j6ik5yp wrote

so then it doesn't sound like an issue of you getting screwed per rate, it sounds like something in your house is using ALOT of power. Might be worth going over everything im the house and seeing where that massive power draw is coming from

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Yomama-22 t1_j6itofk wrote

A dehumidifier will wreck your electric bill if it runs a lot. More than one refrigerator will too.

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dcraider t1_j6jj3rl wrote

Yes this. We have a DH in the basement and runs almost non-stop 6-months out of the year, and of course a freezer in the basement, which are notorious at gobbling up electric as well.

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[deleted] t1_j6jjen7 wrote

[deleted]

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dcraider t1_j6jk2mv wrote

It's only 9 cu. ft. and energy start rated. It claims $24 annual running cost a year but who knows.

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Jumpy-Natural4868 t1_j6jorjv wrote

that's a small one and isn't terrible. People have the very large ones -- that are the size of a standard fridge but are all freezer. They're usually butt old and in grandma's basement for the past 50 years and just chew up electricity.

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burritoace t1_j6md9di wrote

Chest freezers are pretty efficient actually

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Jumpy-Natural4868 t1_j6mhioh wrote

whoops, thanks for correcting me. I must be thinking of those fridge size stand up freezers.

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peon2 OP t1_j6ilqnw wrote

Is there a way to check how much power a single appliance is drawing?

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Ryan_JK t1_j6iofkw wrote

You can buy a killawatt meter if it is an appliance that plugs into a normal outlet. If it’s something you need to monitor at the panel then you would need something more complex. I was looking at this system the other day but have no experience with it, not sure how effective it is.

https://sense.com/

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jnc2000 t1_j6km3pn wrote

I'm been a happy Sense user for almost 3 years. Is it perfect, no, but it has helped me chase down phantom draw issues, and I've been able to keep my usage in line with what I expect. Our house currently has a tankless electric hot water, electric vehicle, and five people in the house.

https://imgur.com/a/xwsAFzv

https://imgur.com/a/a3LxAd9

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Showerbeerz413 t1_j6immb8 wrote

by itself, I don't think so, but there are outlet usage monitors that can measure how much power a device pulls from the plug.

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merkinmavin t1_j6j48py wrote

There's a device called a Kill A Watt and every homeowner should have one. Simple yet effective way to confirm how much juice something is using. And it can be used to avoid overloading a circuit.

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ktxhopem3276 t1_j6ikeke wrote

Why is water heaters plural? That’s not very common in the states. Do you have separate water heaters in each room? I thought people used those in countries where energy is expensive and they only turn them in an hour before they use them and turn them off when done

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peon2 OP t1_j6ila9w wrote

It was weird to me as well but the previous homeowner must have installed an extra for long showers or something? We have 2 water heaters that are both 40 gallons.

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ktxhopem3276 t1_j6im2v6 wrote

Wow that’s your problem. 80 gallons is enough for 15 people. Forty gallons is for a small family and 50 for a big family. And why would they use electric over gas? Whoever they were, they are weird. Gas is usually a lot cheaper around here but you should investigate if you have gas lines and the venting needed. I guess it depends on how they are fed to the sinks and showers - do they feed into separate hot water pipe networks or do they combine into one system? You can get tax credits to swap in a high efficiency electric water heater but the purpose of those is usually when you have no gas line or want to reduce your carbon footprint.

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Jumpy-Natural4868 t1_j6jjjte wrote

if you have a 220 v line you can install a heat pump water heater with electric backup and get rid of the 2nd water heater and save a lot of money.

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adamglumac t1_j6kt0a8 wrote

This is very good advice.

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Jumpy-Natural4868 t1_j6l2poe wrote

Problem is you need a 220v line. And they're expensive. But I think they qualify for that climate bill tax credits.

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mikeyHustle t1_j6ivlgk wrote

*Two electric water heaters* is itself an anomaly that 99% of other houses aren't going to have. I agree this is the spot to start troubleshooting.

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ktxhopem3276 t1_j6j1exy wrote

Maybe a marriage counselor suggested it because they were fighting over who used up all the hot water. So they got a separate his and hers hot water heaters and were too lazy to figure out the gas lines and venting so they went electric /sarcasm

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mikeyHustle t1_j6kwnmv wrote

People with more money than either brains or emotions might have actually done this. Or not even that serious, just "You use up ALL the water! I'm buying a second one and it's YOUR FAULT!"

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analmartyr t1_j6isuor wrote

This is super weird. Like super weird. You need to see how old they are as most likely these are not going to be very efficient. A normal response from a homeowner who needed more hot water would be to go tankless not add another 40 gallon tank.

Also, most likely the tanks are in the basement which generally are not insulated well so keeping the two tanks heated is going to cause them to be almost constantly running.

I’m also trying to figure out in my head how 2 tanks would run, does one go to one part of the house and the other go to a different part or does one feed into the other?

This is very curious.

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peon2 OP t1_j6j2xih wrote

The previous owners added on a full bathroom in the finished basement, I believe one water heater only supplies this and the rest of the house (1 full bath, kitchen, etc) are supplied by the other heater.

One is on it's way out (2011) and one is fairly new (2019).

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worksong1 t1_j6mzbg0 wrote

Lose the 2nd heater entirely! No matter how efficient the appliance, it makes no sense to keep 40 gallons always hot for what sounds like a rarely used basement bath. A small tankless unit placed in or adjacent to the bath will provide instant & limitless hot water for a hand wash or shower, & draw ZERO kWh when not in use. Cost approx $250.

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ktxhopem3276 t1_j6jt5te wrote

which one is the newer one? Are any of them high efficiency?

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SparklesLuvsScotch t1_j6j1b8k wrote

We had two water heaters in our old house. The previous owners finished the basement and installed baseboard heating, which is the only thing that used the second water heater.

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CARLEtheCamry t1_j6j1zkr wrote

A water heater for baseboard heat and not a boiler?

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mmphoto412 t1_j6j6y29 wrote

They either don’t know the difference between a water heater and boiler or are getting them mixed up.

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kistner t1_j6j8hw3 wrote

I work in real estate. I've seen a couple houses over the years that used a water heater as a boiler. Typically in a small addition.

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mmphoto412 t1_j6j8pd2 wrote

As in the same type of water heater that’s used for potable water?

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kistner t1_j6j9ma0 wrote

Yes, but if you use it for heat you can't also use it for drinking water. There are fancy recirculating dual use water heater/boilers out there as well but I wasn't really talking about those.

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mmphoto412 t1_j6j9ye9 wrote

I’m not an HVAC expert, so maybe one can chime in, however that seems extremely inefficient. Also you can’t run any rust or declassification inhibitors through the heating system.

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kistner t1_j6jagc2 wrote

It probably isn't efficient or I would have seen it more than twice in 30 years. But it is simple, water heater, pump, thermostat.

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mmphoto412 t1_j6jas28 wrote

Based on some quick googling, it is a thing, however it seems to be only used in mild climates.

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Kichard t1_j6jp5x7 wrote

The cold water would be fine to drink, right?

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kistner t1_j6jpock wrote

Yes. Cold water would have nothing to do with a water heater hooked up as a boiler.

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buterfligurl t1_j6j7w37 wrote

Some baseboard heating can use low temperature, thus a water heater is not unheard of.

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ktxhopem3276 t1_j6j1l1o wrote

This is an interesting idea. Op needs to investigate where the hot water from each goes.

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zadigger t1_j6k7vv3 wrote

For reference - I'm now in central Texas and during peak summer (105F+) our AC, in a 1200sqft house w single pane windows, running near 24/7, uses roughly 1500kwh per month. Our electric company literally gives discounts for higher usage (although that's specific to the plan I contracted for knowing the insane usage the house has). I'm sure you're already looking into the power usage but I wanted to give a real-world anecdotal comparison.

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peon2 OP t1_j6l48r5 wrote

Thanks that is helpful. I feel like it is impossible that we use 1450 KWh a month. Like I said we use to use 800/mo including heat/AC with electric. Now that we have gas heat I’d assume we would be like 600 not 1450.

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zadigger t1_j6mcogl wrote

In the winter our usage w electric heat still peaks at 850. So I'd expect you to be well below that w gas. Again we have a lot of loss because of old windows and bad insulation

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Snoo-35041 t1_j6knckm wrote

Please look up heat pump hot water heaters, or hybrid electric hot water heaters, you'll have a fortune. And Duquesne light has energy audit programs you can do too. I have a hybrid hot water and I use about 400kwh a month on the low end.

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Jurrald_La_Queefious t1_j6l1vs7 wrote

Do you use electric space heaters by any chance? For how small they are, they draw a ton of power.

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PeanutCavalry t1_j6kjrwx wrote

Sign up for notifications from Duquesne Light. They send weekly emails with your usage. I've also been getting them (monthly I think) that tell me what's been using the electricity based on draw signatures.

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