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Ijustlookedthatup t1_jdcgc20 wrote

Reply to comment by VerticalTwin in VIDEO: ATVs Blitz Providence on Tuesday by Previous_Floor

This why the second amendment exists. When government does not act it is up to the individual and community to protect themselves. A woman and with her kids were pulled and beaten and it’s not the first time. I know many don’t agree with me here, but how long is it going to be until somebody gets stabbed or killed because of the in action of the police department.

And no, I am not saying pull out a gun and the smallest, but someone feels their life is threatened, and they’re about to be pulled out of the car. They should be able to shoot. The individual was trying to drag them out. We have a right, and we have a right to defend ourselves.

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General_Skin_2125 t1_jdcgvno wrote

My friend, that is not why the second amendment exists. You just want to be a vigilante and kill people.

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VinylGator t1_jdfz1s6 wrote

So you’re a woman with kids and your forcibly being grabbed out of your car that has your children too, and that’s not a reasonable enough situation to use force?

That’s just an excuse to want to be a “vigilante”?

Fuck me. I hate guns but this doesn’t stand the most basic of reasoning.

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Ijustlookedthatup t1_jdci02a wrote

Actually as a Paramedic, I devoted my life to helping people, and I have. So good try on the wanting to kill people part. Have you ever walked into a murder scene where the person couldn’t defend themselves?

Is it possible that I just see a different solution to a problem? I am all for stopping These events peacefully, however, when Police don’t act for the good of the people, it is up to the people to defend themselves. Also, for a different view, please go and check out r/liberalgunowners for a Liberal view of the second amendment.

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Proof-Variation7005 t1_jdd0aoy wrote

>Actually as a Paramedic, I devoted my life to helping people, and I have.

That doesn't buy you the right to shoot strangers. It just reinforces that there isn't a link between a "noble" job and being a good person.

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Ijustlookedthatup t1_jddlgkm wrote

Nope it was the point that why if I wanted to kill people would I not join the military or police? Kinda odd place for someone to work if they wanna kill. Also my point was about self defense of your life. Not really what I would consider being a bad person.

I love how everyone immediately goes to call me a psycho because I believe a woman who is dragged from her car and beaten has the right to self defense.

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Proof-Variation7005 t1_jddqgdp wrote

IDK, her exercising the second amendment turns an incident where nobody even went to a hospital into one where someone ends up in a morgue. That doesn't really seem like a better situation, even if the person in the morgue was the bad guy

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Ijustlookedthatup t1_jdelxhv wrote

You don’t know the outcome, anything can happen when a group attacks an individual. I would absolutely prefer the bday guy be in a morgue than an innocent woman get beaten by a group. It’s remarkable to me but it seems people have more empathy for the criminal than the innocent, I’m curious why that is

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Proof-Variation7005 t1_jdf1ct5 wrote

>You don’t know the outcome

Considering we're talking about a single incident 2 years ago, I kinda do know the outcome. We all do. That's just the nature of linear time. I'm going to need to have more than 1 incident in the last decade in the city before we can start pretending it is even sorta probable.

And, without remotely trying to say, she deserved it or the attack was warranted, I have trouble believing that her version of the build-up where the group was just sitting through multiple light cycles before she politely honked and then was attacked. I've seen plenty of aggressive behavior towards other motorists from the ATV and Dirt Bike crowd but her version of events failed the smell test. Hell, just the idea of them camping at an intersection and refusing to move runs against every one of the hundreds of other times people have seen these groups.

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VinylGator t1_jdg0atx wrote

And here we have the goal post pushed further down the field.

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Ijustlookedthatup t1_jdf25nw wrote

There’s an article referenced above with a list of the different times people have ran into trouble with them. They don’t do it where I live but I don’t like to see innocent people get hurt by criminals without any defense.

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VinylGator t1_jdg0wme wrote

I fucking hate guns but this person is just nuts. I would do anything in my power to instinctively put an end to anyone trying to forcibly accost me from my vehicle that also had my children in it.

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Ijustlookedthatup t1_jdhcz9j wrote

I enjoy target shooting, but if I could snap my fingers and have every firearm gone I probably would. I 100% agree on defense.

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VinylGator t1_jdg02jv wrote

Fucking hilarious.

“I’m just going to let you forcibly, with ill intentions, grab me out of my car that also has my children in the back seat. I’m sure your intentions are altruistic.”

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VinylGator t1_jdfzikh wrote

Again, I’d like to point out the the user painted the picture of being forcefully grabbed out of a car that also contained her children as the scenario in which force would and should be reasonable. Any court of law will uphold that reason. You’re just trying to antagonize for the sake of antagonizing.

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dgroach27 t1_jdcmn0t wrote

So how would you use your interpretation of the second amendment to stop the ATVs?

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Ijustlookedthatup t1_jdcrqtj wrote

No, it will not stop the ATV problem. But it may help stop people from being dragged out of their cars and beaten. Or at the very least give someone the chance to stop themselves from becoming a victim of violent crime.

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dgroach27 t1_jdcu6q8 wrote

What makes you seem like a vigilante is there can be a very thin line between community self defense and a mob of vigilantes, especially when those who intend to do harm to an individual or the community are difficult to distinguish from those who don't intend to do harm.

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Ijustlookedthatup t1_jddl7yx wrote

I specifically brought up the recent case of a woman and then a man being dragged out from the car and beaten. Is this something you Consider vigilantism to stop the person or persons attacking you? I didn’t speak of vigilantism, that was brought up by you. I believe in adequate self-defense.

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dgroach27 t1_jddn6xe wrote

Love the condescending question, of course that's not vigilantism. You also talked about community self defense.

>When government does not act it is up to the individual and community to protect themselves.

I was providing input on why someone called you a vigilante. Literally no one is saying people shouldn't defend themselves but when you say stuff like "When government does not act it is up to the individual and community to protect themselves." after saying "This why the second amendment exists" it isn't out of the realm of reality for someone to interpret that as you wanting more than 'individuals using "adequate self-defense"'. It is especially not out of the realm of reality considering the country we live in.

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Ijustlookedthatup t1_jdel7m2 wrote

I can see how what I said could be seen that way but that is absolutely not at all what I mean. If someone went out and created trouble for those riding the ATVs I would say they should be charge for assault with a deadly weapon. I merely say that anyone who get aggressed by these groups should have the right to defend themselves.

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VinylGator t1_jdg365n wrote

I’ve followed this thread quite closely.

> Literally no one is saying people shouldn’t defend themselves

That seems to be precisely what your argument has been?

> government does not act it is up to the individual and community to protect themselves.”

I mean, I fucking hate guns, but can you reasonably explain to me why the right to carry a gun is not justified here? Like actually reasonable?

Is this woman, who is violently being grabbed from her car, that also has her children in it, supposed to say: “nah, nah, nah, nah, aboo, boo, I call time out! I’m going to call the police. Things are in time out until they arrive!”

What more could a right to self defense exist of?

> it isn’t out of the realm of reality for someone to interpret that as you wanting more than ‘individuals using “adequate self-defense”’. It is especially not out of the realm of reality considering the country we live in.

This is your projection to attempt to self validate your ridiculous interpretation. Nothing more, nothing less.

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dgroach27 t1_jdgfgjh wrote

I’m pretty sure I never said people shouldn’t defend themselves buuuuut you have been following this thread quite closely so you’re probably right. Whatever you say big guy.

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VinylGator t1_jdg1ipb wrote

Right. A women being accosted from her car with children is difficult to distinguish from a group of people in the act of accosting her

I like how the woman, with her children, suddenly became a “mob”.

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General_Skin_2125 t1_jdd822m wrote

You are not a paramedic, I don't believe you. What's your NREMT number?

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Ijustlookedthatup t1_jddm4lx wrote

How bout this as proof “vtach code defibrillated to course vfib with bilateral 18g and 1mg/kg lido on board. eat tube is 7.5 22 at the lip and etco2 43.”

Either I’m a fantastic creative writer or I spent 15 years on a rig, you can choose which to believe.

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General_Skin_2125 t1_jddne2b wrote

Anyone can google medic protocols. Now ill ask again, what is your NREMT #? (You can find it on your license) :)

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Ijustlookedthatup t1_jdelg7w wrote

If you DM me yours I’ll DM you mine. And what if I’m from a non national state?!?!

Yeah they can google it, but it’s not about the information, it’s the shorthand vernacular that gives me away. Others too, like reading a run report.

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General_Skin_2125 t1_jdemljc wrote

I'm not a paramedic lol. So are you from a national state or not? Lmao get your story straight, liar. It's not good to lie about being a public servant.

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Ijustlookedthatup t1_jden94i wrote

You’re a troll and no one cares, sadly for you I’m not one of those fucks that has to prove myself to an internet stranger. If you don’t know by how I wrote that I know what’s up then you’re not important enough for me to share my numbers, then you’ll have my name and based on the nature of how you deny obvious information leads me to believe you aren’t sound of in the head. Which is another reason not to dox myself. Have a great day non medic from a fake medic!!

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General_Skin_2125 t1_jdep5wq wrote

At least you admit it.

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Ijustlookedthatup t1_jdepiyi wrote

Exactly! You should be nicer to people. It’s probably a good thing you are not in EMS.

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General_Skin_2125 t1_jdex133 wrote

Hahaha... okay pal.

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Ijustlookedthatup t1_jdeykuy wrote

It’s true! I was curious if my encounter was a “one-off” but it seems you really do like to be mean to people. I thought initially you were a troll, but nope, just an unkind person. Honestly, this is far down the line no one else will read this. I hope you find happiness.

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General_Skin_2125 t1_jdf0688 wrote

Same to you.

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Ijustlookedthatup t1_jdf0sbw wrote

I’m happy, married, own a home, run a business with my best friend after spending my time “falsely” on an ambulance for many years. I think I’m the happiest I’ve ever been tbh. Thanks though I’ll keep finding it!!

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VinylGator t1_jdg5fxv wrote

Enjoy every second of it mate. Enjoy that contentment, you deserve it, and thanks for your public service.

More importantly, thanks for standing ip to the fact that anybody deserves the right to defend themselves from being violently attacked.

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Ijustlookedthatup t1_jdenibh wrote

I could just give you a coworkers number or a partners and you’d never be able to tell, doesn’t prove shit.

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VinylGator t1_jdg4juy wrote

this is hilarious!

> I’m not a paramedic lol.

But damned if I don’t present the rhetoric like I am and demand your “numbers” I don’t fully understand myself but present as a “gotcha”!

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VinylGator t1_jdg445r wrote

You must be quite literally inept to not understand that no sound person would divulge that information publicly on a forum such as reddit.

That’s not the “gotcha” you desperately want it to be.

Seems to me the user offered to pm you further information. Did you take them up on that offer?

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DeftApproximation t1_jdchtow wrote

The train of logic (illogic in this case) is truly bizarre.

We went from ATVs disrupting the peace -> A fatal accident with a dirt bike (makes sense) -> A woman being pulled out of a car -> Self defense -> Implying that we should shoot anyone that we feel threatened by

So if you circle that line back to the original sentence of your post: Idiots on ATVs -> Shoot them

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Ijustlookedthatup t1_jdciegk wrote

I actually ride motorcycles, and ATVs, so I’m not actually down for shooting people who do stupid things. What I am down for, is a woman defending herself from being beaten by a group of men on motorcycles.

It is not actually productive to be so hyperbolic.

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VinylGator t1_jdg6dd5 wrote

It’s quite astounding you literally said, yourself:

> A woman being pulled out of a car

(while omitting her children where in the car and that this has happened previously.)

To:

> Implying that we should shoot anyone that we feel threatened by

I might have missed this part. When was that exactly inferred or implied?

Perhaps her stance should be: “Nah, nah, naboo, boo! I’m calling the cops. You can’t do anything until they arrive!”

I’ll give in: Women in their car, with their children, must submit, less they be “murderers”.

Honestly, are you people even listening to yourselves?

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DeftApproximation t1_jdgzghn wrote

The disconnect is the jump from riding recklessly to self defense.

Yes you have the right to defend yourself, even with a firearm. Why self defense and ATVs are in the same scenario is the logic problem. This the the problem with “whataboutism” arguments, when topics jump around things get conflated. If you keep them separate, things make sense.

Reckless riding on ATVs -> Cops should do more about them

Woman being assaulted -> Yea, she should be able to defend herself

The post that started with: Reckless riding on ATVs -> Then the immediate response of “This is why we need the 2nd amendment” (There’s the jump that is not helpful)

When you argue/debate, you can’t do those abrupt whataboutism turns to effectively change the subject. You need clear break points in the conversation line and context to set them up. Otherwise you get hyperbolic results like “Kids on ATVs -> Shoot them”

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Ijustlookedthatup t1_jdijpan wrote

I was referencing the article that had a list of incidents relating to these groups attacking people. That is why I said what I said. No one in their right mind thinks shooting these children and adults is okay for just riding and having fun

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DeftApproximation t1_jdipm24 wrote

And that’s where you need to have clear breaks in the conversation because the logic line you presented makes it sound like you wanted to shoot kids on ATVs because the police *weren’t doing enough.

Putting some blame on GoLocalProv though because the way they structured that article immediately leads people into this line of thinking. (And why they’re mainly considered a muckraking shill of a newspaper)

A bunch of the quick little snippets were of police or the mayor saying they won’t do anything about ATV gangs. Which is not true.

Police are instructed not to chase them through the city because there is a much higher risk of damage, injury and death (to the police, gang member or especially bystanders) when it comes to a full sized police cruiser vs a smaller let nimbler ATV or a Bike. Police have to work to apprehend them in other ways.

It’s not a good answer but it’s all they’ve got atm.

Which is why it sounds insane when the logic line jumps from ATV riders to firearms in self defense. Should a woman be able to shoot in self defense when under physical assault? Yea, I would concede on that. Is that an equivalency I would bring into a discussion on reckless riding? No.

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Ijustlookedthatup t1_jdir4sh wrote

Def not reckless driving, I would say give someone life in prison for doing something like that.

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