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090810290202 t1_j0nrfgp wrote

I’m going to have to read the article in nature, but this seems very interesting.

I worked for one of the companies working on the mRNA vaccine at the height of COVID. I was and am very pro vaccine but I do know people that had adverse redactions.

I do hope that alternative treatments will become more readily available to those that are not good candidates for vaccination.

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Haunting-Offer6922 t1_j0nutfb wrote

I cannot take moderna. No one will believe me.

1st shot phizer- minor reactions that you'd expect 2nd shot moderna- incapacitated for 2 days 3rd shot: moderna- even worse than the last shot. Drank soup lying down. The pain was torture. Lasted 48 hours 4th shot : phizer- minor symptoms that you'd expect

I will never again take moderna. It's not worth it. After experiencing it I changed my view on people refusing vaccines due to reactions.

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090810290202 t1_j0nwh64 wrote

Yeah, interestingly Moderna is suing phizer/BioNTech over the delivery mechanism. Allegedly they are very similar/same from what the news article claimed.

I’m sorry you went through that. The vaccine kicked my butt, but I’m glad I got it. Covid kicked my butt even after the vaccine. It could have been worse. My wife and kids we’re vaccinated and covid was like a weak cold for them. No issues.

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ChronWeasely t1_j0omyk1 wrote

Must have to do with stability. The basic delivery mechanism is not uncommon for new mRNA treatments. One of several. Lipid stabilization, which lets it enter cells by just merging with cell walls, which are also lipid, and dumping the mRNA inside. As the mRNA doesn't need to go any further in the cell, that's all that's needed.

Some more complicated ones have several components to navigate each part of the delivery mechanism.

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090810290202 t1_j0pe453 wrote

Indeed! I believe the narrative was that Pfizer/BioNTech tried out 3 or maybe 4 mechanisms in clinical trials and ultimately went with the one patented by Moderna.

I assume they utilized different adjuvants and strengths.

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Complex_Experience83 t1_j0pbl69 wrote

I’ll probably get banned for saying this, but I’m so curious to the people that say covid was bad for them and it would have been worse if they weren’t vaccinated if that would actually be true. I hear this so often. Maybe the vaccine didn’t actually have the impact it was supposed to. No way to really know but

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KingKudzu117 t1_j0phi1j wrote

Yes there is a way to know. It’s called the scientific method. The original lineage of CoV2 was extremely bad. Our immune systems were not able to mount a sufficient response without significant viral load. The vaccine saved hundreds of thousands of lives and prevented serious illness in millions. There’s a significant disinformation campaign out to revise history and discredit the vaccines. https://www.factcheck.org/2022/08/scicheck-widespread-claims-misrepresent-effectiveness-of-covid-19-vaccines/

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891

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TheTrueSleuth t1_j0pp37i wrote

you're not gonna believe me but my whole family, mother father and brother, have never been vax'd and all got the Alpha version and fought it off fine.

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wtgreen t1_j0ps6dn wrote

I had covid twice before vaccines were available and it was generally mild... I continued working - from home - and even was able to workout most of the time, though I definitely had some trouble catching my breath.

Just because your family and I had no trouble from covid doesn't dismiss the huge numbers of people that did, and it's that massive impact world-wide that qualified it as a health emergency. My daughter worked in ICUs around the country during covid. She shared the awful despair she saw daily. Places were overwhelmed and PPE, staff, bed and equipment shortages made the suffering worse, as did coworkers and colleagues getting sick and turning into patients. Yeah... my experience was mild and it was for many, but that doesn't change the fact that millions died world-wide.

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TheTrueSleuth t1_j0s2f2w wrote

I didn't say it changed that fact but that doesn't mean it's a death sentence by any means any more than the flu. Some people just have better stock. Stronger, apparently. I cannot explain it.

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Ariandrin t1_j0p37st wrote

What’s super interesting is that all my shots have been Moderna and they’ve been increasingly more and more gentle for every subsequent shot. The first one I felt kinda crappy for about a week, had some significant soreness in that arm and swollen lymph nodes. Each one after that had fewer side effects from the shot before. I haven’t had a Pfizer one so I can’t say if it’s brand specific or not, but my mom got Pfizer and was fine.

It’s so weird how differently people can react to the same meds.

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pmmbok t1_j0q397f wrote

I wish they would study why some people have terrible reactions. My wife and I have had 5 modernas. My reaction to the first was 12 h of fever and chills. Subsequent reactions are less and less. I have had covid twice since the vacs. My wife none, though we shared the same environment. Why? There is a reason beyond differing exposure. It would be valuable to know.

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stupid_systemus t1_j0pg0au wrote

I had the same reaction as you for Moderna as well (all 4 shots).

The intense reactions from the initial shots means that our bodies were severely lacking in defending itself from the virus. That means the vaccine is working as intended.

Now we have less intense reactions with subsequent shots because our body is entering what they call a "goldilocks" zone. We're revved up for defending itself from the virus and it just needed a few updated tweaks.

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SerialStateLineXer t1_j0q0ywg wrote

>The intense reactions from the initial shots means that our bodies were severely lacking in defending itself from the virus

That doesn't sound right. The mRNA vaccines contain no actual virus, so more severe side effects are caused by a stronger, not weaker, immune response. A more typical pattern is mild reaction to the first shot (when the spike protein is totally unrecognized), followed by a much more severe reaction to the second shot. Reaction to Pfizer shots was generally milder due to the lower dose.

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Spitinthacoola t1_j0r6mdr wrote

It doesn't mean that. The whole thing is way more chaotic and complex. Reactions don't indicate better or worse immune response.

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SolidDoctor t1_j0o1fsl wrote

Why was your second shot different from your first?

My first two shots were Pfizer, then I got the Pfizer booster, and this year I got the Moderna bivalent. The worst reaction I got from any of the shots was shot #2, the effects were easily three times worse than the other three shots, and the effects lasted for about two days.

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DanDierdorf t1_j0ooi7c wrote

Everyone is posting negative stuff, I've had 4 Moderna shots with nothing more than a slightly shore shoulder for 24 hours maybe,. Pretty sure this is the norm.

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stupid_systemus t1_j0pevo2 wrote

Same. First shot of Moderna I got chills on the first night and shoulder pain (similar to getting a flu shot). 2nd shot, my lymph node on my arm (injection side) swelled up (which is to be expected) and body aches (which is something I sometimes get from flu shots in the past). I've had the 2nd booster and the Moderna bivalent booster recently and the side effects not as bad anymore (I feel it more compared to the flu shots, but they last for at least a day).

The harder the expected vaccine side effects hit you means it's actually working.

Moderna is also twice the dosage as Pfizer's vaccine and their effectiveness last longer than Pfizer.

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SerialStateLineXer t1_j0q2b5e wrote

See table 12 here. Among people age 18-64 getting a second dose of Moderna, 17% reported a fever (possibly biased downwards by people not taking temperature), over 60% reported headache, fatigue, and myalgia, and nearly 48% reported chills. This is significantly higher than for people over age 65 or for people age 18-64 getting the first dose.

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mmecr t1_j0o5wic wrote

Same here, I've had Pfizer for all 4 (2 original, 2 boosters now) and then second one had me down for the count.

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Haunting-Offer6922 t1_j0o3xri wrote

In my country that's how it was rolled out for my age category. During the second and third boosters phizer- was reserved for seniors. I skipped a booster during the summer because of side effects and moderna being the only available vaccine. In the fall the new phizer vaccine came out and was made available to my age category.

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team-tree-syndicate t1_j0o4wr7 wrote

I think it was moderna that I took, but I had a severe reaction on the first dose and way too scared to get a second one.

You should still get vax though, especially if it's only a minor inconvenience.

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Haunting-Offer6922 t1_j0o6dis wrote

I believe you should get vaccinated as well. My reaction was extreme. Nerve pain so fierce that I could not sit or stand. Every part of me hurt. It hurt to lay perfectly still in my bed. I was so sick. It was awful. For 48 hours I was a soaked through and couldn't move. I couldn't eat, except to sip broth, with assistance and using a straw. Never in my life have I been so weak and in so much pain. The migraine was unreal. Nope. If phizer hadn't been made available I would have also skipped my fall booster. I mask and take precautions. We haven't caught covid once. Luckily phizer came out and I decided to try it. Now I know for sure. There's something with moderna that makes me sick. Hopefully I will continue to have access to phizer

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WoTpro t1_j0p4rza wrote

Moderna uses a mRNA concentration that is 3 times that of pfizer, most likely that is the reason for the difference in reaction

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Haunting-Offer6922 t1_j0pgdu3 wrote

I suspect that being the issue. Whatever it is, there's something.

I'm very sensitive to medications so that wouldn't surprise me.

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EEcav t1_j0ofk1s wrote

The second shot is the one that is supposed to be worse. Everyone reacts differently, but it may have been the order of the shots, and not the brand.

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Haunting-Offer6922 t1_j0pg08x wrote

Possibly. But if one brand is known to have reactions and the other is fine, I'd choose the one I haven't had reactions to.

I'm vaccinated for everything I'm supposed to be vaccinated for and I have never experienced a reaction like this. Moderna is the only vaccine to affect me like this. The tetanus vaccine I also had a strong reaction to but nothing like moderna

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SerenityViolet t1_j0pay1v wrote

It's not the people who have genuine reasons for not taking a vaccine that worry me.

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Haunting-Offer6922 t1_j0pgrc2 wrote

Sadly we can't really tell the difference. I know some antivax ppl who were forced to get the first shot because of employment and swore they had bad reactions. .... problem is I suspect they are lying and can't prove it.

It's frustrating because that is a big part of the reason my doctor gave me such a hard time. I begged during the summer for phizer but it was refused because of guidelines. I would have gotten my booster in July if they'd have given me phizer. I was fortunate I didn't catch covid. I just got vaccinated this past month.

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SerenityViolet t1_j0qee45 wrote

My SIL comes from an anti-vax family. He defied all his upbringing and had the vaccine anyway. My daughter had to take him to hospital afterwards - panic attack.

Some people genuinely can't take it, but I think it's overstated / misinterpreted how many.

I myself had mild non-allergic reactions to 2 of the 4 shots I've had. The first Astrazenica shot was the worst, with 2 days off work, but I chalk it up to an immune response to a new pathogen. Exactly what it's supposed to be doing. 2nd AZ shot - nothing, then Pfizer, reaction again, though much milder.

I recently had an allergic reaction to a common drug. Very different experience.

I have not had COVID.

Edit: That is to say, both things are responses but an anaphylaxic reaction is not the same as an anti-body reaction.

https://pch.health.wa.gov.au/For-health-professionals/Emergency-Department-Guidelines/Anaphylaxis

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nanoatzin t1_j0omwnl wrote

I cannot take vaccines. I have an autoimmune reaction to something they use in vaccine. It has been impossible to test for what it is because I cannot get ingredient disclosure.

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