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1

chrisdh79 OP t1_j31hmjr wrote

From the article: New research has found that race and ethnicity moderate the associations between the use of psychedelic drugs and major depressive episodes in a large, nationally representative sample of U.S. adults. The findings have been published in the Journal of Psychopharmacology.

In recent years, psychedelic substances such as MDMA and psilocybin have undergone clinical studies to explore their potential therapeutic benefits, with promising results in areas including depression and anxiety. However, this research is still in its earliest stages, and little is known about the relationship between race and psychedelic-induced improvements to mental health.

“I was interested in the topic because there is a lack of research about psychedelics, race, and mental health,” said study author Grant M. Jones, a clinical psychology PhD student at Harvard University. “Most of the treatment studies have been conducted using majority White samples. So for me, this is my way of starting to raise questions and launch inquires into the intersection of psychedelics, mental health, and race — and seeing how identity might impact the associations that psychedelics have with mental health.”

For his study, Jones analyzed data from the National Survey on Drug Use and Health. The data, collected between 2005 and 2019, included responses from 596,187 U.S. adults. The sample included 128,243 non-Hispanic racial minorities, 96,493 Hispanic individuals, and 371,451 non-Hispanic Whites. As part of the survey, participants reported whether they had ever used a variety of drugs, including MDMA and psilocybin.

After controlling for sex, age, educational attainment, engagement in risky behavior, household income, marital status, and the use of other drugs, Jones found that MDMA and psilocybin use were both associated with lowered odds of lifetime depression, past year depression, and past year severe depression among non-Hispanic Whites.

22

daniuwur t1_j31ivun wrote

What's the difference between race and ethnicity?

That's too american for me to understand

19

silverfoxmode t1_j31jtjm wrote

You also have to figure in socioeconomic standing as far as mental health goes. The strain of being government dependent or even just outside of qualifying for assistance has to weigh heavily on individuals raising children in an already lopsided system designed (imo) to keep minorities and lower class whites shackled into a financial servitude of sorts. You work , it's not even enough , you can't provide, you don't work you are given just enough to survive but not enough to improve your situation. Yes there are jobs out there, I know a guy that has to have his wife work just to pay his fuel costs. He's home she's working and vice versa. The erosion of the family unit is one of the major factors in mental health issues(also just my opinion).

128

jxxi t1_j31vt8b wrote

Replying to silverfoxmode (#1,286,609)

Yes, but if you read the study. "After controlling for sex, age, educational attainment, engagement in risky behavior, household income, marital status, and the use of other drugs". They took financial status into account.

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muzak2me t1_j321fv7 wrote

So in other words, there could be a placebo effect going on. Perhaps white people on average are more likely to believe that psychedelics could cure them of depression. I have not seen any attempts at Placebo controlled studies on the effectiveness of psychedelics for treating depression...

−1

jxxi t1_j3235cr wrote

Replying to Particular_Being420 (#1,287,264)

Okay sure those are additional parameters that could be taken into account. But the majority of student loan debt is owned by the upper and middle class. Credit card debt, the middle class. And not the lower class or poor people, of which I assumed the commenter was referring to.

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Murkus t1_j3293kg wrote

Just a reminder to anybody new to r/science... be very pro active in checkign sources and journalistic merit of all psypost articles. Many of the ones posted here are debunked in minutes by scientists as bad science or bad reporting.

& the obviously skewed clickbaity headlines to provoke engagement, rather than prioritising well made information sharing.

322

badchad65 t1_j329efd wrote

Replying to muzak2me (#1,287,381)

There's been some in specific subtypes of depression (e.g., depression associated with cancer).

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27909165/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27909164/

An enormous issue with placebo control is that its exceptionally easy to break the blind. The article in question doesn't appear to be looking at efficacy data though. It's an epidemiological analysis involving self-report use, which is quite different than a clinical trial.

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silverfoxmode t1_j32fu4n wrote

Replying to jxxi (#1,287,131)

What were the controls? It looks like there were twice as many whites polled than black/Hispanic. Also being white with money in America is different than being a minority with money in America. You never see a white rich man being profiled on the news . The Same with being white and poor vs minority and poor. There's a social stigma against minorities whether we want to admit it or not, money may help pad that some bit it still exists. That's why socioeconomics is important not only the amount of money.

5

corlick t1_j32hbuh wrote

Replying to silverfoxmode (#1,286,609)

What precisely is the strain of government dependance? I hear of people with nice 3 bedroom apartments in the projects for sub-1000$ a month and they lived there their whole life since 18. Ive been living at my parents in a tiny house while i get my degree and save for a massive down payment and id kill for that

−10

silverfoxmode t1_j32oqsq wrote

Replying to corlick (#1,288,192)

In most situations you just don't walk into a HUD home like that , there's months, yrs on a list trying to find something. While still trying to verify an address being homeless to even collect a food card. In any government system there is going to be abuse of said system. The people you know are lucky. Most are already in a dysfunctional single parent home. Many only wish they could pay their own way and further their education like yourself. Your statement is that stigma they face . I've been there , blocks of cheese powdered milk . Watching my mother kill herself at three jobs just to meet the reduced rent .The government wasn't paying our bills just giving us a break on the rent. We hated it. It was our dirty little secret. Empathy is a rare commodity these days . It's always what about me. Trust me it's no road you'd want to go down .

6

yungchow t1_j331sn5 wrote

So this to me seems entirely socioeconomic. Tho, a ton of white people do have a huge festival type culture that I don’t see in other races as much so I could see them feeling more isolated from their peers

−11

StreetCornerApparel t1_j33f31s wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#1,287,750)

I think this study has a lot more to do with the differences in how modern racial cultures have been raised to view psychedelics, rather than the history of psychedelic use among tribes/archaic cultures, personally.

11

Ayrnas t1_j33gf6p wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#1,288,366)

People of different races may have different mutations, which can react differently with certain medications. We are not all physiologically the same...

Alcohol has different effects on certain Asian populations. Red heads often require a good amount more of certain drugs to be effective. It's an important part of medical science.

2

lostkarma4anonymity t1_j33hos6 wrote

Not really related but I read a study that said Americans suffering from delusions, paranoia, and schizophrenia are unique in that they "see"/"hear" demons and are associated with negativity and stress whereas most other countries see or hear angels and aren't as negative, hateful, or angry.

4

ChrysMYO t1_j33kjw3 wrote

Replying to daniuwur (#1,286,574)

A Black Ethnic Igbo from Nigeria and a Black American born in America are both Racially Black. However, they are two different Ethnicities.

A South African can be ethnically Xhosa or Zulu. Same nationality. Can both be racially Black. However two separate ethnicities.

Ethnicity is objectively defined. Race is socially constructed based on context.

10

Possumsurprise t1_j33ldyc wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#1,287,750)

I would wager there are poorly documented or culturally roped off (in the sense that western society just isn’t privy to the knowledge of yet) psychedelics used all throughout those regions. The size of traditional medical and shamanistic systems in Africa and Asia are immense and no less complex than were the ones in Europe, the MENA region, and the Americas. It’s just not open to the western mind fully yet. I believe ibogaine is from the medicinal arsenal of Central African Pygmy (would love to know if there’s a better collective word for these peoples as this is clearly an outdated term still being used) peoples like the Mbuti and Mbenga who have quite a distinct lifestyle and background compared to surrounding Africans who likely have their own equivalents too.

7

Asleep-Song562 t1_j33o1wb wrote

Replying to muzak2me (#1,287,381)

I don’t think “placebo” is the right word here. Honestly, I find use of the term placebo in scientific research to be a problematic oversimplification. Any drug that acts on the brain will necessarily interact with the mind and biology of the individual taking it as well as that individual’s sociopolitical and spiritual environments and experiences. The word “placebo” oversimplifies the complicated relationship between mind, body, and society in healing. The author who summarized the article put it this way:

“Jones and his colleague Matthew K. Nock outlined some potential mechanisms that may underlie the results. One such mechanism might be the “set and setting,” which refers to an individual’s mindset and their environment, respectively. These two factors “are reported to have a marked impact on the effects of these compounds,” the researchers explained. “Unfortunately, in the American ‘setting,’ racism, prejudice, and discrimination are deep-rooted features of the minority experience and may thus negatively impact the minority psychedelic experience.”

However, Jones noted that the findings are correlational. “It doesn’t mean that psychedelics have weaker effects for treating mental health disorders for racial and ethnic minorities,” he said. It is also possible that unaccounted demographic factors contribute to the observed findings.

2

Saysbruh t1_j34fvaj wrote

This thread is why a lot of people don’t take these “studies” seriously. A clown show that doesn’t belong in a science sub.

5

Jefc141 t1_j34n9hc wrote

Is this sub even remotely factual or just total nonsense?

4

superbsubpar t1_j34ojpc wrote

Replying to daniuwur (#1,286,574)

Race as we now use it is completely made up and invented during colonization to separate those in power (white) from those not in power (black). While there is some genetic base to it it is mostly a class distinction. There is no such thing as a Hispanic race although it is used as such. But you can be 100% of European descent or 100%African descent etc and still technically be “Hispanic” same with Asian/Pacific Islander who all vary greatly in phenotype. Ethnicity is more real based in lineage, genes, and culture. An African American is a different ethnicity than a Haitian although they are both “black”. However Celia Cruz and Shakira are both “Hispanic”.

−3

jxxi t1_j34u283 wrote

Replying to silverfoxmode (#1,288,121)

Yes these are good points. Especially when taking into account the disproportionate drug arrests and harsher sentencing for minorities. Would probably make the experience less enjoyable.

1

thebigchia t1_j34uh61 wrote

So.... Didn't want a majority white dataset but used a majority white dataset?

“I was interested in the topic because there is a lack of research about psychedelics, race, and mental health,” said study author Grant M. Jones, a clinical psychology PhD student at Harvard University. “Most of the treatment studies have been conducted using majority White samples. So for me, this is my way of starting to raise questions and launch inquires into the intersection of psychedelics, mental health, and race — and seeing how identity might impact the associations that psychedelics have with mental health.”

The data, collected between 2005 and 2019, included responses from 596,187 U.S. adults. The sample included 128,243 non-Hispanic racial minorities, 96,493 Hispanic individuals, and 371,451 non-Hispanic Whites.

4

TakeTheCanolli t1_j3549sc wrote

It’s also depends on how hot the jam is during St Stephen > The Eleven

1

EmptyKnowledge9314 t1_j35awpu wrote

Replying to SocialSanityy (#1,292,432)

I was thinking about that. I don’t even know whether this study is valid (the source is notoriously unreliable) but my limited personal experience (white male 49) with psychedelics back in the day was almost entirely environmentally dependent. In a comfortable and safe environment I had healthy and enjoyable experiences. When the environment had the danger of any sort of problem I had paranoid and terrible experiences.

It stands to reason that minorities (with generally greater reason to fear some external intrusion) would collectively have worse experiences.

Which then leads me to believe any potential therapeutic benefits for minorities would require extra consideration of the environment (physical and otherwise) in which the therapy was undertaken.

4

KittenKoder t1_j35eeq4 wrote

You know what? I won't even verify the data because this leads to a much more important question: how much of that is linked to how the society they are in treats them?

In the USA the only reason weed was made illegal was because mostly black people used it, due to how easy it was to grow and therefore much less expensive to acquire. Which was a factor because black people were only recently freed from slavery.

So why not a study on the socioeconomic status instead of race then see how the two correlate?

0

justinlongbranch t1_j35g3ek wrote

Replying to ChrysMYO (#1,290,100)

Yeah it seems like there are two types of profiling being discussed here. Profiling on the news can mean either showing a person's entire story and doing a profile on them almost like their Facebook page, or there's profiling that is for instance when a police officer racially profiles someone and pulls them over for being a person of color, or in the news when they show a suspects mugshot and share negative extraneous information about them eg they got a speeding ticket once and never returned that one book to the library.

2

thinklikeacriminal t1_j35hgtq wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#1,292,605)

Weed can have or enhance a psychedelic experience. Weed after mushrooms have peaked is an entirely different experience. For me, hash and tobacco makes everything go steamboat Mickey. I’ve had ABV edibles that gave me soft kaleidoscope visuals.

I don’t intend on trying opiates, but I’d imagine the combo could be very different from the individual effects.

10

DogsBeerYarn t1_j35lgcs wrote

It's an interesting line of questioning, but the study cited in the article doesn't account for a whole lot of confounding factors. Drug use patterns are very strongly correlated to race and ethnicity, and socioeconomic class. That is, even if rich people and poor people or white and black folks all use weed, the circumstances, frequency, and attitudes around their use of weed can be very different. When it comes to psychedelics, that has an enormous impact on their effects, both immediate and long term. Set, setting, and integration are a giant part of one's experience of psychedelics, and those are very different between different groups of people.

It should certainly be studied closely as research opens up, but the article doesn't really get into what those data do or don't show. There's no reason to suspect there's a non-social mechanism for different effects by race and ethnicity.

1

SocialSanityy t1_j35pun4 wrote

Replying to MaxSucc (#1,293,585)

Down south , Florida . I should’ve stated which mind altering drugs exactly , I know lots of us have no problems with weed , but anything beyond that is a no no in our community .

1

Trikeree t1_j35s69n wrote

Every ethnicity on the planet has a history of this... literaly.

One of my favorite sub reddits has gone to shizzola.

Get a grip here.

2

SrRoundedbyFools t1_j35wlmf wrote

Replying to SocialSanityy (#1,293,750)

There’s no shortage of blacks who use PCP in combination with marijuana. It’s hardly a ‘no no’ - not daily abuse but plenty of incidents throughout the US of PCP being more common in black community use than Hispanic or white users.

0

justsomeplainmeadows t1_j36ecxo wrote

Well I suppose that makes sense. Despite us all being human, there will be some slight differences between different races and ethnicities

1

mooserider2 t1_j36mmar wrote

Replying to AadamAtomic (#1,293,952)

ChatGPT to the rescue:

> “Are flying spider sharks eating babies in Florida?!”

> There have been rumors circulating on social media recently about flying spider sharks eating babies in Florida. While this may sound like the stuff of nightmares, some people are claiming that they have seen these terrifying creatures with their own eyes. But is there any truth to these claims, or is it all just an elaborate hoax?

> To begin with, let's address the most obvious issue with this rumor: there is no such thing as a flying spider shark. Sharks are fish, and they do not have the ability to fly. They also do not have the ability to walk on land, let alone on spiders' legs. So right off the bat, we can already say with certainty that this rumor is completely absurd.

> Despite this, some people are still claiming to have seen these flying spider sharks in action. However, upon closer examination, it becomes clear that these claims are likely to be either misidentified animals or simply made up. Sharks are generally not interested in humans as prey and typically only attack when they feel threatened or if they mistake a person for a seal or other type of prey. It is highly unlikely that any kind of shark, flying or otherwise, would actively seek out and attack babies.

> In conclusion, it is completely impossible for flying spider sharks to be eating babies in Florida or anywhere else. This is nothing more than a baseless and nonsensical fear-mongering tactic with no basis in reality. So don't worry, your babies are safe from flying spider sharks.

10

funklab t1_j36zemy wrote

Am I reading this wrong?

All of those confidence intervals are basically all crossing each other. There's hardly any statistical difference between ethnicities.

The study was powered to detect a difference in white participants (and one year MDE improvement in hispanic participants), it was trending toward doing the same in other ethnicities, but the confidence interval was just too wide, with the exception of indigenous where they just barely detected an increase in MDE.

1

funklab t1_j37090i wrote

Replying to jxxi (#1,287,131)

But the whole title is basically misleading.

In that data there is no statistical difference between any of the ethnicities and whites, with the exception of the indigenous category, which has a confidence interval so wide that it must have a tiny sample size.

This study is powered to show that whites who used psilocybin and MDMA have lower rates of MDE (and last year only for hispanics) and that indigenous have a slightly higher rate of MDE compared to whites.

This study is just underpowered to show a difference in most of the ethnicities. Many of them probably show similar responses if you have enough of a sample size, and a confidence interval that crosses 1 just shows that you can't read anything into it.

1

Smurf-Sauce t1_j3ir4u1 wrote

Replying to smokinsandwiches (#1,299,425)

That’s literally what the phrase “profiled in the news” means. “Profiled in the news” is a phrase synonymous with “featured in the news”. In this instance the word “profiled” isn’t standing alone, it’s part of an oft-used phrase with an established meaning. I didn’t have to use context to glean the meaning, the phrase has a known meaning.

1