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Brain_Hawk t1_j5qpisc wrote

The study appears to have been done in cultures (??) As opposed to humans. The abstract is incredibly atrociously lacking even basic details of what or how it was studies, and of course PNAS is paywalled and I can't open on my phone.

So important sure, but not ipso facto evidence that this is happening at any level of concern within the human population. The media of course will hupe it as a major problem of drastic social concern anyways.

Reminds me, a couple years ago, a Twitter account made the rounds called "in mice" which just retreated sensationalist news headlines with the words "in mice" when that is where the sensatiknal sounding effect was found. Mouse research does not always translate to humans.

Good research, I assume but can't read directly, but something that leads to follow up work determining if this is true I people, not evidence on its own.

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S_A_N_D_ t1_j5qw0jr wrote

The article mentions someone already looked at humans and found there was no increase in resistance in individuals taking antidepressants.

Basically, it could, but it's not.

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Brain_Hawk t1_j5qwf79 wrote

I missed that part. I swear some epidemiological survey, but kinda weak. Still media's gonna have a field day

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S_A_N_D_ t1_j5qygka wrote

I would argue it's stronger than the in-vitro study. All the found there was that it activates general stress responses. Stress responses are known to decrease susceptibility to antibiotics (which is the effect saw in vitro).

It's in the same category as fire, because excessive heat also activates stress response pathways. What matters is whether it has an effect in the real world, and so far the data says it doesn't.

Overall it's worth studying further, but right now the best evidence says no effect.

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Neker t1_j5trw6h wrote

> Still media's gonna have a field day

generalist mass media, that is. PNAS or The Lancet are media too.

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Ignorant_Ismail t1_j5pzdy0 wrote

It’s interesting how the microbiome seems to respond to a lot of factors.

The implications of the study are that the increasing use of antidepressants may contribute to the problem of antibiotic resistance, which is a major global health concern. The study found that exposure to antidepressants for 60 days reduced the susceptibility of bacteria to antibiotics, and in some cases, such as with sertraline, the effects were apparent after just one day of interaction. This suggests that the overuse of antidepressants may have negative effects on the effectiveness of antibiotics and may exacerbate the problem of antibiotic resistance. The study also highlights the need for further research to investigate whether the part of the population that regularly consumes antidepressants really has a microbiota that is significantly more resistant to antibiotics than the rest of the population. And also to see other effects, such as what happens with the microbiome.

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S_A_N_D_ t1_j5qu15u wrote

The evidence is really really weak.

The found no coorolation between antidepressant consumption and antibiotic resistance in a population study which means even if there is an in vitro effect, it's so far not translating into real world effects.

>After reading the article, González Zorn decided to check if there was any correlation between the different levels of consumption of antidepressants in European Union countries and levels of antibiotic resistance, but found none. 

And then they throw in this little nugget to somehow try and pull it back.

>Such a correlation, however, does exists when other factors are taken into consideration, such as the number of drugs consumed without prescription.

This isn't even even relevant to the article at hand. It also doesn't take into account other drugs either because that's not what they're testing. They were looking at anti-depressants and the results came up negative.

The mechanism they suggest is just general stress response which leads increased mutations and horizontal gene transfer (more on this later).

They did in vitro studies and found the inhibitory concentrations of various antibiotics increased. The above mechanism can't explain this because this would require either de novo resistance mechanisms to just evolve in the short timeframe (incredibly unlikely), and presumably they didn't have resistance genes in the bacteria (which eliminates horizontal gene transfer) since you'd just end up selecting for those with the resistance marker.

Basically they found that antidepressants activate bacterial stress responses. Bacterial stress responses are known to increase antibiotic resistance. But when they looked to the real world, there was no effect.

In short, anti depressants activate bacterial stress pathways. There is no evidence for it causing an increase in antibiotic resistance in individuals taking anti depressants.

>Now, it would be necessary to see if the same results that have been seen [in cell cultures] can be reproduced in vivo, in animal models, and see other effects, such as what happens with the microbiome.”

That was looked at previously. That's what coorilation study was looking at. They found no signal. So this suggests it's not a problem.

I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't study this, only that so far the best evidence we have says it's not actually causing an increase in resistance, even though the in vitro study says it's possible.

This is a really crappy article because right now the best evidence suggests that antidepressants are not causing an increase in antibiotic resistance.

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asbestospajamas t1_j5s01qa wrote

"The Microbes felt threatened, so they responded by accelerating their usual rate of mutation..."

What kind of anthropomorphic, idiotic, analysis is that?

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Papancasudani t1_j5ry4l0 wrote

What a garbage study. Show that it's happening in vivo and that's a different story.

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GamingTheSystem-01 t1_j5s7lcy wrote

Maybe the bacteria are just more motivated to fight back

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K1lgoreTr0ut t1_j5rzser wrote

Anxious people get more “sinus infections.”

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iceonmars t1_j5s8tw2 wrote

Not in humans it doesn’t

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L0ST_N0UN t1_j5sjiyl wrote

If you Anti the Anti you get Pro I guess...

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luraleekitty t1_j5ufr64 wrote

This would explain what happened to me a few years ago. Background I've that sick kid my whole life. I was on antidepressants as a kid. Then periods of my adult life I've gone without. After reading this, now I understand why 5 years ago I was in and out of the hospital multiple times for cellulitis, MRSA Bacterimia, then MRSA ate through my thigh leaving it disfigured. I was on antidepressants at that time as well. But had to stop them because I was allergic to many antibiotics and the MRSA kept mutating to resist the ones I was taking. I was left (and still am) with one oral and 2 IV antibiotics that I can take. The oral antibiotic, Zyvox, must never be taken with antidepressants because of serotonin syndrome. Now I am at a level of sickness that I can maintain without being hospitalized. I was diagnosed with common Variable Immunodeficiency as well. Can't catch a break

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Aethenae t1_j5rb2fc wrote

Add that to my resistance of joy.

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arthurdentstowels t1_j5rkh2g wrote

This is anecdotal but I took Sertraline for nearly three years. A while after I stopped I somehow got impetigo on my face (unrelated I’m sure) and absolutely nothing they gave me affected it, they made it worse and worse. I ended up being tested and it turns out I’m immune(?) to all but one of the antibiotics they tested.

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Fair_Diet_4874 t1_j5rnq52 wrote

So you finally don't want to die anymore, but are more likely to? That's stupid

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[deleted] t1_j5qln5p wrote

[removed]

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DooDooSlinger t1_j5r1mrf wrote

Calling antidepressants useless on a science subreddit is plain dumb. These medications have saved countless lives and do so literally every day, while improving the lives of countless more.

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Dls95405 t1_j5re0zl wrote

A meta study some years ago showed that SSRIs are no better than placebo for all but the most severely depressed people, the kind of depression where you can't even get out of bed and dress yourself, yet millions of people with mild-to-moderate depression are still prescribed them and suffer the awful side-effects.

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AdLeading3217 t1_j5s1365 wrote

The study you're referring to was done by Irving Kirsch. He's an American psychologist who specializes in the placebo effect. He found that antidepressants have no clinical significance when compared to a placebo while like you said exposing people to a host of terrible side effects.

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[deleted] t1_j5r7w0k wrote

[removed]

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JAYRM21 t1_j5rjkh2 wrote

>most if not all of them would likely have been even better off with other approaches

I hear you, but don't think you understand how incredibly debilitating anxiety and depression can be. Other approaches can be very effective, but often mental health issues make those other approaches completely inaccessible. Antidepressants aren't prescribed in order to cure problems, they're prescribed to improve quality of life, and there's no reason they can't be used in conjunction with other approaches.

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HelenAngel t1_j5rsi6s wrote

I’m very sorry you know people who were negatively affected. I have narcolepsy with cataplexy as well as cPTSD. The SNRI I take daily manages my cataplexy so I don’t drop things or fall down. It also helps with the crippling depression from multiple traumas. I have tried everything from St. Johns Wort to light therapy. None of it worked. Therapy helps but therapy alone was nowhere near as effective as it plus the SNRI.

You’re welcome to refuse whatever medication you want for yourself but the fact is that everyone is different. Some of us do need medication & are much worse off without it.

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HenCurry t1_j5rc38r wrote

in case you’re new here, this is a science subreddit not a baseless opinion subreddit. Please respond with relevant comments that have a scientific basis.

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Plunder_Bunny_ t1_j5qwn4g wrote

Well, they are "practicing".

Oh, look a door...I'll just see myself out.

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Ma1eficent t1_j5qt9kk wrote

SSRIs also weaken an important heart valve.

>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4998757/

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DooDooSlinger t1_j5r1rkd wrote

And decrease the risk of killing one's self so there's also that.

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HenCurry t1_j5rcfym wrote

Seatbelts can cause bruising but also save you from being thrown through a car window upon collision. On risk benefit analysis, instant death is considered worse than abdominal bruising. Please construct arguments wisely on this subreddit and look at the greater evidence.

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