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cloudrunner69 t1_j99sp3c wrote

Reply to comment by Bakagami- in What happens when ASI meets Aliens? by Ashamed-Asparagus-93

>This behaviour is seen less and less as the person grows in both experience and level of education.

It's true, some of the richest well educated people alive today are also some of the most ethical and selfless people who do nothing but give back to society and in no way treat humanity and the planet like their own personal playground to do what ever the fuck they want. If only we could all be as wise and educated as the CEO's of the glorious mega-corporations and their political lapdogs then the world would be a much better place.

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Bakagami- t1_j99y42f wrote

You're falling for the strawman fallacy. No one's talking about the rich and certainly not about political figures.

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cloudrunner69 t1_j99yhdg wrote

So rich people and politicians are not experienced and educated?

I think you're the one who is making outlandish exaggerations. Because saying experienced and educated people don't steal is absolute fucking bullshit.

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Bakagami- t1_j99z3fw wrote

You don't need to be educated nor intelligent to be rich. And in politics usually the loudest ones rise to the top, not the clever ones. They're some of the worst people alive, their behavior rewarded by our corrupt systems of governance.

And again you're falling for yet another strawman fallacy. I did not say the educated don't steal, I'm saying there is a very clear trend of criminality decreasing with the level of education an individual gets. There's bound to be exceptions, but the trend is enough if we're going to make predictions about an entity which takes this to the limit.

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cloudrunner69 t1_j9a084f wrote

> I did not say the educated don't steal

You said that behavior is seen less and less as the person grows in both experience and level of education. So what exactly does that mean then?

You're speaking like it's a law of nature or something, that the more people are educated and experienced the less they steal. And you are also trying to pretend that actual criminals are less intelligent than others. What you are saying makes no sense and it is complete bullshit.

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Bakagami- t1_j9a15k0 wrote

Here you are again arguing with made up claims. Look, this here is the one and only claim I'm making in the entire thread:

>[...] there is a very clear trend of criminality decreasing with the level of education an individual gets.

If you agree with the above statement, then good, we have nothing to talk about as we're agreeing with each other.

If you disagree we have nothing to talk about together either as you would evidently need to look up some very basic statistics on our society, which would be embarassing for a grown up not to know about.

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cloudrunner69 t1_j9a1pd9 wrote

So you never said this?

>We can clearly observe that stealing is inversely proportional with the level of education someone has.

or this?

>(criminal) behaviour is seen less and less as the person grows in both experience and level of education.

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Bakagami- t1_j9a233j wrote

You lack serious reading comprehension skills. Both of what you're citing state the exact same thing I pointed out for you just one commemt above.

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cloudrunner69 t1_j9a2sci wrote

Ok you did say those things. Because that is what I'm discussing, those original statements, not the one you just came up with in order to dodge the question.

So i'll say it again. What do those original statements mean exactly and how can those statements be in anyway reasonable when people who are educated and experienced partake in criminal activity? Who are you talking about when you say criminal behavior is seen less and less when people grow in both education and experience?

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Bakagami- t1_j9a43t0 wrote

Dude it can not be this hard to understand. I'm not dodging the question, I literally just rephrased what I said so people like you could understand it.

>there is a very clear trend of criminality decreasing with the level of education an individual gets.

and

>We can observe that stealing (and criminality in general) is inversely proportional with the level of education someone has.

and

>(criminal) behaviour is seen less and less as the person grows in experience and education.

All state the same EXACT thing. Like literally 1:1, I have no idea what you're still going on about.

If I had to take a guess, you missunderstood my position from the very start and thought I'm defending all and every educated person, which simply is not the case. And now instead of accepting your rash judgement you keep insisting on it.

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cloudrunner69 t1_j9a4ga7 wrote

No, your original comment was wrong and ambiguous.

So here's what you should have said genius: The more likely someone is educated the more likely someone is to get employment, the more likely someone has employment and earning money the less likely they will be committing crime and stealing money. This would be applying to studies down on those living around poverty levels.

But there is no reason in anyway to suggest people who are more educated and experienced are less likely to commit crime because educated people commit crimes all the time, criminal behavior is driven by greed, lust, jealousy and all those good things, even those with plenty still want more. White collar crime is rampant throughout the corporate, political and banking industry and to dismiss that by pretending that people in those industries are just loud and less educated is nothing but ignorance.

In conclusion and as I have already said your original comment is nothing but nonsensical bullshit.

edit:

>you missunderstood my position from the very start

You made an open ended statement and are now blaming me for misunderstanding it?

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Bakagami- t1_j9a5z2e wrote

No, you just seriously lack reading comprehension skills and did not understand at all what I said, not in the original post, nor in the discussion thereafter.

And look, you just again made a strawman... of course things like poverty and security are big factors for crime. Life isn't as simple as you could attribute a single cause for such complex issues. That's an entirely different topic. And it seems for you I have to simplify this even further: I'm not saying the cause of criminality is the lack of education. Education is the solution.

If you seriously disagree with this, that's nothing but ignorance, and I have nothing left to say to someone like that.

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cloudrunner69 t1_j9a6f43 wrote

> I'm not saying the cause of criminality is a lack of education. Education is the solution.

Expand on that statement then. Give a proper explanation as to what it means rather than just saying shit and expecting people to accept it as fact and then blaming them for misunderstanding your ambiguity.

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Bakagami- t1_j9a811d wrote

Very well. As you by now understand as well, criminality is complex and multifaceted. There are countless reasons for why somebody would potentially do something that could harm somebody else. There are evolutionary reasons, poverty, fear, security concerns, potentially hundreds of psychological reasons, and many many more we're not aware of.

Now what's the next step? We can ask why. Why do we have evolutionary biases pushing us to do crimes? Why is there poverty? Why is there [insert issue]?

You notice, these are all very complex questions in and of themselves. But if you can answer these, if only partially, you can move on to the next step.

How can we solve this? (I'll be waiting for your answer)

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cloudrunner69 t1_j9a8pu0 wrote

Ok I see what's happening now and why it's so frustrating. It's all political word salads. No wonder you can't give straight answers - you have no answers.

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Bakagami- t1_j9a9kq6 wrote

If that's your answer, that's quite tragic. You're expecting a straight answer to a question which has no straight answer. You're expecting the world to fit your ideals because that's easier to understand for you.

However, if you want one and only one answer, all I can say is learn to ask why. Teach people to ask why. Rational scientific thought is the only way out.

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cloudrunner69 t1_j9ab5hl wrote

>I'm not saying the cause of criminality is a lack of education. Education is the solution.

All I asked is for you to explain what this statement means. You haven't done that.

Because holy shit no one on Earth would have read that statement and thought to themselves it must mean this:

>As you by now understand as well, criminality is complex and multifaceted. There are countless reasons for why somebody would potentially do something that could harm somebody else. There are evolutionary reasons, poverty, fear, security concerns, potentially hundreds of psychological reasons, and many many more we're not aware of.

>Now what's the next step? We can ask why. Why do we have evolutionary biases pushing us to do crimes? Why is there poverty? Why is there [insert issue]?

>You notice, these are all very complex questions in and of themselves. But if you can answer these, if only partially, you can move on to the next step.

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Bakagami- t1_j9abv19 wrote

Since it's so hard to get you to understand things I was gonna go about it slowly, but it seems like no way works for you. No wonder you're opposing education as a solution, people tend to dislike what they don't understand.

It is as I said, criminality has lots of reasons, and those reasons can generally be solved through education. I don't think I can simplify this any further for you.

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cloudrunner69 t1_j9acdlf wrote

> No wonder you're opposing education as a solution

Where did I say I oppose it?

>I don't think I can simplify this any further for you.

I'm not asking you to simplify anything. I'm asking you to explain what the statement means. But let me simplify the obvious for you - What kind of education is needed to solve criminal behavior?

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Bakagami- t1_j9aei63 wrote

Anything from general education about our world and universe to natural sciences and more. But most importantly scientific, critical and rational thinking. The more the better. The quality of the education is of utmost importance as well. Sadly education isn't given the importance it needs in most places today, it has only become a tool to teach you how to do certain jobs. Anything that's not directly related to ones profession is dismissed as unnecessary. I don't consider the majority of students to be much educated in the scientific way, and with people who haven't visited a school or university for ages this tends to be even worse.

Anyways, this trend is very noticable in all of our societies, and there is nothing suggesting it would suddenly change the higher you go. This is where the whole debate began.

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cloudrunner69 t1_j9akgy1 wrote

Well I kind of agree though not completely. Who really knows these things. Anyway I better go, just had a sudden traumatic experience and I think I'm in shock, not sure if I can continue this right now. Thanks anyway for watering it all down for me to understand.

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Bakagami- t1_j9bxcfa wrote

Hope you're doing better by now. Thanks for the discussion, take care.

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