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BigZaddyZ3 t1_je80xzi wrote

Reply to comment by Iffykindofguy in Do people really expect to have decent lifestyle with UBI? by raylolSW

How do you know people aren’t either just good or bad?

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Puzzleheaded_Pop_743 t1_je8bu0s wrote

They can but that is just a subjective perspective because "good" and "bad" are just egoic projections. From a third person point of view if you view human behavior as part of a system then you can see that people behave immorally due to fear and ignorance.

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BigZaddyZ3 t1_je8dh2a wrote

This thought process only works if you believe good and bad are completely subjective, which they aren’t.

There are two decently objective ways to define bad people.

  1. People who are a threat to the wellbeing of others around them (the other people being innocent of course.)

  2. People that are bad for the well-being of society as a whole.

For example, there’s no intelligent argument that disputes the idea that a serial killer targeting random people is a bad person. It literally can not be denied by anyone of sound mind. Therefore we can conclude that some people are objectively good and objectively bad.

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johanknl t1_je984xe wrote

The fact that everyone agrees on something does not make it objective. It just means that all of humanity shares the same subjective view on that point.

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BigZaddyZ3 t1_je98gpt wrote

It certain cases, it absolutely does make it objective. If literally everyone finds a painting beautiful, it’s objectively a beautiful painting. How else would you define the term “objective” in this context?

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johanknl t1_je9rdk8 wrote

when i go to the dictionary it clearly states: "in a way that is based on facts and not influenced by personal beliefs or feelings"

even if everyone agrees, it's still just their feelings. You cannot have an objectively beautiful painting since beautiful inherently has to do with opinions and beliefs.

Objective and subjective are static things. One cannot fluidly go between both. In your example, if someone changed their mind, it would all of a sudden become subjective? that's not how these words work.

There's objective facts about a painting, such as the time it took to complete, or the colours used or something, but not how beautiful it is. Same for "good" and "bad" people. People just are and the judgement is subjective. whether we agree or not.

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BigZaddyZ3 t1_jebb7g9 wrote

Even when you take your feelings out of it, you can still make an argument for a piece of art being well-produced objectively. Regardless of your personal tastes…

And you can still make good arguments that serial killers have a negative impact on a community regardless of your personal beliefs…

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johanknl t1_jecpodm wrote

Of course. I never claimed otherwise. Being well produced or having negative effects on a community can absolutely be argued in objective ways.

The fact that for example "a good colour balance in painting is important and good" is subjective, does not mean that we cannot then go on to say that someone objectively produced a better result for that subjective ruleset.

That would focus in on details like that though. Saying that something is "beautiful" is not in any way objective.

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