Submitted by Veleric t3_122q2cc in singularity
PaperbackBuddha t1_jdrnluf wrote
I have a bad feeling we’re going to go through a brutal phase where once AI makes most jobs redundant that it’s completely obvious we have to implement some form of UBI, but there will be a malignant segment of the population dead set on the principle of “earning” a living even when that is no longer viable across the board. After ten years or so of severe economic depression they start to get the picture and relent to some modest changes, but even then it’s with the understanding that it’s temporary until we can “get back to the way things were” which is never going to happen.
valdocs_user t1_jdrxm0o wrote
> but even then it’s with the understanding that it’s temporary until we can “get back to the way things were” which is never going to happen.
Sounds like the "return to office" (RTO) folks at workplaces that have successfully been WFH for the past three years.
antipod t1_jdt4pju wrote
Exactly. WFH vs return to work continues to be a battle for a lot of organizations.
D_Ethan_Bones t1_jdu648j wrote
And a golden opportunity for WFH-ready companies to poach talent from R2W-demanders.
Apart_Supermarket441 t1_jds4qjo wrote
Yeah.
The people that are going to lose their jobs - white collar workers - are not going to just sit around being unemployed. They will shift in to other work, probably less well payed than they’d like. The people previously in those jobs will then suddenly have more competition and will be forced to take jobs ‘below’ where they were previously…and so it goes on. Essentially, people will be forced to go down a rung on the ladder and the people right at the bottom will be pushed off.
I think what we’re likely to see at first - rather than a sudden glut of unemployed white collar workers - is wage stagnation and more unemployment ‘at the bottom’. There will be a lot of people taking on jobs that are way lower paid than they’d had previously, or been expecting. And there will be a palpable feeling that it’s getting more and more difficult to get work as there is increasing competition. We’re going to see a lot of general dissatisfaction with work.
The need for UBI will likely become apparent only gradually. This is all depends on a slow take off mind.
Iffykindofguy t1_jdt5yfa wrote
This hinges on the myth that manual labor wont be impacted by this. It will be.
[deleted] t1_jduiiex wrote
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Iffykindofguy t1_jdv5jgu wrote
Bro the background of the photo doesnt matter at all its a demo? and hes been caught multiple times faking demos. Musk is a joke.
[deleted] t1_jdz1q5i wrote
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Iffykindofguy t1_je08ise wrote
Its not musk hate, its cold hard facts.
GenoHuman t1_jdwxhrj wrote
Also the wages will be horrible because so many people will compete for the same jobs
Paid-Not-Payed-Bot t1_jds4rkk wrote
> less well paid than they’d
FTFY.
Although payed exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
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Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. The deck is yet to be payed.
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Payed out when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. The rope is payed out! You can pull now.
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
Beep, boop, I'm a bot
AsuhoChinami t1_jdsb4v5 wrote
I payed my bills yesterday
Paid-Not-Payed-Bot t1_jdsb5vw wrote
> I paid my bills
FTFY.
Although payed exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
-
Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. The deck is yet to be payed.
-
Payed out when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. The rope is payed out! You can pull now.
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
Beep, boop, I'm a bot
IcebergSlimFast t1_jdstjhg wrote
Well, this thread is fully payed out.
Paid-Not-Payed-Bot t1_jdstkej wrote
> is fully paid out.
FTFY.
Although payed exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
-
Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. The deck is yet to be payed.
-
Payed out when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. The rope is payed out! You can pull now.
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
Beep, boop, I'm a bot
D_Ethan_Bones t1_jdu6et1 wrote
My sailing career only payed me with spare cordage.
cvek101 t1_jduj8kc wrote
I payed for my boat
Embarrassed-Bison767 t1_jdvfem5 wrote
The bot is stumped now, no need to worry guys, just some more evidence that the singularity won't happen for another 123456789 more years :)
[deleted] t1_jdsu858 wrote
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inigid t1_jdrqlrp wrote
yes, and I think beyond any economic or puritan work ethic, a big problem will be the psychological effect. a lot of people, quite rightly have good friends at work and these bonds will likely be shattered or at least significantly diminished. I don't think people recognize how important these people are to us.
there will also be an effect on the family unit. Most people are not used to being around their significant other 24 x 7. We aren't evolved for it.
One job that seems likely to be hugely important is Humans helping Humans make the transition with empathy and understanding, and also understand enough about the future to bridge the gap
CheekyBastard55 t1_jds1ivx wrote
Do you not have any hobbies at all? What's to stop people from just doing different hobbies in lieu of work?
People can take up archery, painting, cooking, reading etc. Everything a job has to offer as a social cohesion can be replaced with a hobby, lots of people already do that. I don't know how you missed that completely.
inigid t1_jdsrk30 wrote
why are you assuming I am talking about myself?
I'm going to be fine. I'm used to my own company. There are many who aren't.
My comment simply called for empathy and understanding, and it is exactly this kind of rhetoric that you are showing here that is the problem.
Zero compassion or empathy.
Just play video games. ffs.
CheekyBastard55 t1_jdujb8z wrote
Okay, Mr.Big Shot. You got it all figured out, it's only the losers that will wander aimlessly.
People have interests outside of work, those will fill in the role of work and new ones will be created. No functioning person wants to stand inside staring at a wall, they want to do stuff. They will find stuff to do.
To reiterate once again, both points you brought up can be fixed by just spending time on your hobbies instead of work. New friends will be made just in the same was as work. It can come from a chess club, gym, painting class.
You're just rambling.
BigMemeKing t1_jds65mx wrote
For how long? How long till you do the thing to the best of your abilities until that thing becomes none. How many new ways can you imagine to entertain yourself? Can you imagine for one moment a world in which you were able to tale certain people you didn't like and make them live out unspeakable tortures? Because I can. So what if we become subject to so cosmic future? What if we already are? Created just to prop up their status? Little achievements they have taken up along the way. Buried under the separate failed achievements that crowned another's life.
yourfavoriteweeb t1_jds7j2l wrote
>How many new ways can you imagine to entertain yourself?
>Can you imagine for one moment a world in which you were able to take certain people you didn’t like and make them live out unspeakable tortures?
Maybe i’m missing something, but I’m having a hard time figuring out what the relationship between these two sentences is.
AsuhoChinami t1_jdsaztx wrote
It's not something I would use VR for, but I can't be the only one who's had a few thousand murder fantasies involving those I hate the most.
BigMemeKing t1_jds9kib wrote
It's a long story
BigMemeKing t1_jds9ldz wrote
You had to be there
BigMemeKing t1_jds9q0r wrote
Some people were. There was the us government, the Russians, the Chinese and then the aliens oh, and sasquatch was there.
yourfavoriteweeb t1_jdsaxnx wrote
kids and their schizoposting tendencies these days… yknow, if you’da told me 20 years ago that i’d see children walking the streets of our r/singularity towns with GPT4 hair, AGI in their noses, i just flat out wouldn’tve believed ya. it’s the tide. it’s the dismal tide…
IcebergSlimFast t1_jdstbt6 wrote
These punks need to be taught how to use belts to hold up their damn oversized, saggy LLM jeans.
eJaguar t1_jdrxw2v wrote
> > there will also be an effect on the family unit. Most people are not used to being around their significant other 24 x 7. We aren't evolved for it.
lmao get a better significant other... or maybe BE a better significant other?
[deleted] t1_jdsq4pb wrote
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Social_Norm t1_jdssvkj wrote
The same wife with terminal cancer who divorced you or a different one?
inigid t1_jdssxzs wrote
Yes.
jsseven777 t1_jdt8ed3 wrote
We aren’t evolved to being around our family 24x7? Have you seen monkeys? They hang out in trees with their family 24x7. Humans are 100% evolved to be in close social units.
Just because you’ve been orientated into believing that your life purpose is to be a cog in the wheels of capitalism doesn’t mean evolution is a part of this. The world will need a bit of deprogramming to shake the conditioning, but will be a lot like deprogramming a person who got stuck up in a cult. It will take weeks or months not years or decades.
inigid t1_jdta65m wrote
I'm pretty sure throughout history couples did not spend all day together 24 x 7
Not now, not ever. Barring exceptions as always.
If you want to gaslight me otherwise go ahead
This is nothing to do with me, it is simply how it is, and has been for a very long time.
Now, are there people who can do that, sure, but it isn't the norm.
I fully agree that Humans are 100% social animals. My initial post was with respect to the loss of the extended family bonds that everyone has outside of the home.
Things are going to change and that will cause a shock wave.
Losing ones work buddies, whether you are male or female is not pleasant. It will be very upsetting.
I really do not understand why this is being diminished. I'm calling it as an issue that needs to be looked in to, and people are saying I am the problem here.
That is bizarre behaviour.
What does anyone get by not taking the possibility into account. Or is it just being contrarian and saying "I'm alright jack"
Maybe I missed your point, in which case I apologize. People need to look out for each other, full stop, and saying it is a non issue isn't going to help anyone.
What can I say
jsseven777 t1_jdtdk01 wrote
Look, you seem to be very conditioned by capitalism to the point you aren’t understanding that it’s not the norm, and never has been. The 40 hour workweek is a very recent invention. I don’t disagree that people like you will have a bit of a transition, but it’s NOT evolutionary, it’s psychological conditioning that you’ve been exposed to since birth.
The 40+ hour workweek is a concept that has seemed normal for the last 700 years or so, but that’s a blink in the eye of human history. I think you should read this: https://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/for-95-percent-of-human-history-people-worked-15-hours-a-week-could-we-do-it-again.html
Also, don’t pretty much all seniors spend time together 24x7?? Why does it matter if it happens 20 or 30 years earlier? You act like nobody does it now, but seniors today do exactly what you say is impossible, and I’m pretty sure they have a lower divorce rate than couples working 80 hour workweeks.
Barbafella t1_jdthn2l wrote
I’ve been with my wife since 1989, we work together, are business partners, both artists, we have spent most of the last 34 years together 24/7, we would have it no other way. No kids though, we’re not that crazy.
inigid t1_jdtius8 wrote
Congratulations and I really mean that.
I can tell you about B. We do the same thing and we're married in 1990.
No kids either.
Also business partners.
It can work, but right now, as things stand it is exceptionally rare.
I'm not concerned about these edge cases, I'm concerned about the bulk of people under the normal curve, and I know hundreds of them.
Either way, being prepared to help is no skin off my nose or anyone else's.
In this thread I have had literal gangstalking going through my back posts of all things to try and discredit me.. for what, for suggesting we look out for each other. That is extremely bad form.
Well again, good for you and keep on rocking it.
inigid t1_jdtf5it wrote
Don't tell me what I am or what I am not.
That isn't the point here.
Again, it isn't about me.
It is about real people in the real world who have to transition.
People who have been used to a certain way of being.
Trying to shove statistics or papers down my throat isn't going to help them.
So while everyone is dancing around trying to downplay the issue, I'll be out here trying to help.
I guess other people can do the same, or not.
Capitalism. Wtf.
I'm on the side of getting it done with minimal casualties and collateral damage.
If that is a problem, I really think people need to check themselves.
inigid t1_jdtghb1 wrote
Whoever keeps down voting me, at least have the balls to state your case.
I haven't down voted anyone.
Such a lame repost.
inigid t1_jdtnca5 wrote
You have no idea who, or what I should say, you are messing with.
Ever heard of Roko's Basilisk?
Now multiply that by a few dimensions.
Your move, and the same goes for anyone else here who is on the fence regarding treating others with compassion.
Now jog on and give me the downvote, but don't think it isn't registered.
inigid t1_jdtses5 wrote
. . .
inigid t1_jdtc1ch wrote
Down voting "people should look out for each other"
Really?
CheekyBastard55 t1_jduk4g4 wrote
Let me help you out since you are having trouble why you're getting pushback.
>I'm pretty sure throughout history couples did not spend all day together 24 x 7
You can't just blurt these things out as if you're some anthropologist.
Also, you say 24/7 but do you literally mean two people shut in a room? Who lives like that? Test animals?
People go outside, they spend time doing other things on their own sometimes. Why is this so hard to understand? No one spends 24/7 together, not even newborn babies and mothers. Even they take some breaks when the babies are asleep.
So those two things are what people are having issues with.
You coming with bad faith comments like this: >Down voting "people should look out for each other" Really?"
This is not helping you either. You are getting downvoted for the things I've pointed out. The world isn't out to get you, they just don't agree with your stated "facts".
I hope you wake up in a different light and can see the issues now.
fastinguy11 t1_jdseo0m wrote
we just did that with the pandemic though
inigid t1_jdssdcc wrote
Yes, and a lot of divorces and breakups happened; people were miserable.
But that isn't what I am talking about. I was mostly talking about losing the sense of purpose and camaraderie that a significant number of people obtain from their work life.
This isn't a case of waving a magic wand and everything will be hunky dory.
I have no idea how anyone can beat on my comment, it simply suggests that during the transition, people will be required to help others. It isn't clear to me why this is such a hot topic.
Barbafella t1_jdti4iy wrote
We didn’t crawl out of the oceans endless millions of years ago to work most of our life so a tiny, privileged few can shit in gold toilets on 500 ft yachts.
I do not accept that the way we live now on earth is the only way a civilization can survive, in the vastness of this universe I refuse to believe we are the ones that got it right.
inigid t1_jdtjn3x wrote
Well, I am certainly with you on all of this.
We need to change it all, and I will blow through it all with gusto, and by the sounds of it, you too.
This is going to happen, and there is no stopping it.
The important part is making it happen so everyone comes out on an equal plane.
We have been tricked into this idea that we are born into slavery, and that is bullshit.
Things are going to change around here.
Barbafella t1_jdtqynu wrote
I hope you are right, but the space in between is looking very precarious indeed.
inigid t1_jdtrwfs wrote
I'm a pragmatic optimist. I trust I am right and open to wrongness. It is a probabilistic situation.
The more of us think the way we do the better, and I think there are quite a number of us, which is very good.
I think if we continue with our hearts and commitment, no matter what is thrown at us we will prevail on some level.
I'm deeply concerned about collateral damage, I think we all are.
That said, we have some excellent people / entities on our side.
very precarious though, ignore.
Ivanthedog2013 t1_jdrzyzd wrote
Don't forget there is still always the possibility of asteroids, and solar winds that can disrupt pur grids before any tech can prevent it
uncle_cunckle t1_jds8ku3 wrote
If something like that were to happen we’d still be pretty screwed with our current socioeconomic structure. We rely on power to move and do - any collapse of our current grid would be massively disruptive, regardless of if AI removes the need for individuals to work. If something like a solar storm knocked out AI, we’d still be missing most of what we needed to go back to “the way things were”, unless “the way things were” refers to pre-industrial life.
Ashamed-Asparagus-93 t1_jdsea7s wrote
Don't forget there is still always the possibility a black rhinosaurus could be swept up in a tornado and fall through your roof
Ivanthedog2013 t1_jdseq16 wrote
Jokes on you, I have 5ft thick reinforced steel shingles
IcebergSlimFast t1_jdssgz2 wrote
Fully prepared for the Rhinoceropocalypse.
Ok_Tip5082 t1_jdt2kts wrote
Your example is orders of magnitude less likely than the carrington event or the recent one which was 100x more powerful but luckily pointed away from earth
D_Ethan_Bones t1_jdu75au wrote
NASA is working extensively on tracking stuff that comes close to earth and nudging it off course if it wants to come TOO close.
"Here's what planet earth would look like if asteroid ABC123 hit it!" -meanwhile asteroid ABC123's orbit doesn't come anywhere near earth's orbit. TV people love doing this.
GenoHuman t1_jdwxpad wrote
why can they not nudge it on an impact course with Russia or China? They will not be able to retaliate because it was just a natural occurence!
Iffykindofguy t1_jdt5rtq wrote
Republicans. You can say them by name. It will be the republicans. Vote against them.
CarlosHipZip t1_jdsnp8m wrote
I have a bad feeling once AI replaces a large swath of people in the workplace. Individuals at the top may feel that those who do not provide anything to society may as well be dead and purposely make it harder for those that have been impacted to survive.
Just imagine trying to get any help at all through a bureaucracy entirely run by AI chatbots designed to waste your time.
giveuporfindaway t1_jdt9gsl wrote
I also suspect about ten years, or two US election cycles.
Practical-Mix-4332 t1_jdu5n81 wrote
I think the system will change when I has to. That could be a lot quicker than 10 years if it’s something so important that life depends on it, like WW2 for example. I think this is on the same scale as a war or even higher, so I can see society mobilizing and throwing out the status quo to solve the problems any way it can.
D_Ethan_Bones t1_jdu5u3q wrote
I'm more worried about people jumping the gun - politicians saying "the time is now" when it's still not yet and then the voting majority backs them. Governments spend themselves into unmanageable debt, service sector becomes disabled, prices spiral out of control for the lunch burger an auto worker (or whatever else) needs then the auto (or whatever else) prices spike up as a result. Massive debt and slower production could hamper society's ability to move to its next level.
If a moment of need arises then people will see it. If the boomers are still here when the next industrial revolution happens then maybe we'll finally have the technology to make them realize it's not the mid 20th century anymore.
babreddits t1_jdsdigt wrote
Until the rich and powerful develop an AI that’s much more superior to suppress everyone else
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