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SpiritedSort672 OP t1_ixg37my wrote

I've always been disappointed in Lex Fridman for his prominent pro-death stance, so I'm shocked to see that his dad is actually pro-immortality. It's funny cause it's usually the other way around. This shows us that anyone can fall for the pro-death fallacies.

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blueSGL t1_ixhp92c wrote

I think some of his worst takes are that he fetishises death, believes that AIs/robots need to be programmed to 'feel' and to 'fear death' as a way to truly capture the essence of living and is the breakthrough that is needed for true AGI

I honestly don't want AIs with a 'survive at any cost' drive to them, or for that matter the ability to feel pain.
This gets back to the Westworld season 1 problem (I don't care about any other seasons) Why would you want to encourage and imbue the automatons who are there for humanity to live out their most wildest fantasies with sentience when a simulacrum would be more than good enough.
Or as Preston Jacobs so eloquently put it, if you are designing a toilet why would you give it the ability to taste.

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ArgentStonecutter t1_ixi18z1 wrote

> believes that AIs/robots need to be programmed to 'feel' and to 'fear death' as a way to truly capture the essence of living and is the breakthrough that is needed for true AGI

I always hated that shit in Bicentennial Man. People keep going on about how uplifting the story and later the movie were, but it always just seemed creepy AF to me.

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notgtax1 t1_ixgw7qm wrote

Maybe when Lex is a little older…

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DirtzMaGertz t1_ixim9dd wrote

Kind of makes the jokes that Lex is a sentient robot funnier.

Lex having a different opinion isn't a fallacy though. Just because you disagree with it doesn't make it a fallacy.

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SpiritedSort672 OP t1_ixiqxxp wrote

>Just because you disagree with it doesn't make it a fallacy

Of course not. I didn't say that.

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DirtzMaGertz t1_ixir9v3 wrote

>This shows us that anyone can fall for the pro-death fallacies.

this you?

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SpiritedSort672 OP t1_ixitj72 wrote

Yes, I've said Lex's arguments are fallacies, but I have my reasons for it. You said I'm just dismissing them cause I don't agree with them.

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DirtzMaGertz t1_ixiu2x7 wrote

Calling them a fallacy is about as dismissive as you can be bro.

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[deleted] t1_ixgc2j5 wrote

Oh sheesh we don’t even know what death is, how are they “fallacies”

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red75prime t1_ixggmn4 wrote

We know that there's no going back. It's enough for people who don't care for speculations with no evidence.

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HeinrichTheWolf_17 t1_ixh361g wrote

This, let’s not accept untestable contradictory metaphysical explanations for what death is or what happens after it, it’s just more of the “God of the Gaps” argument. That mentality also leads to apathy and not fixing the problems around us.

I say let’s treat it now, if these people believe the rapture or enlightenment is inevitable anyways, then why not stay alive until it comes?

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[deleted] t1_ixhp0y2 wrote

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ArgentStonecutter t1_ixi1qdm wrote

> folks with NDEs

Oh lord.

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[deleted] t1_ixi5j0c wrote

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ArgentStonecutter t1_ixi9nkm wrote

Subjective hallucinations in people teetering on the edge of brain damage from oxygen starvation and other chemical imbalances is not meaningful evidence of anything. File it along with drugs and sensory deprivation nonsense.

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[deleted] t1_ixiaokq wrote

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ArgentStonecutter t1_ixicop4 wrote

It’s the null hypothesis. It is a thing we absolutely know is happening in a dying brain regardless of whether there is ALSO something spiritual going on.

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[deleted] t1_ixid2mg wrote

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ArgentStonecutter t1_ixigccr wrote

No, you're wrong, we really do know how the brain reacts to resource starvation. If you want to establish that there is something metaphysical in NDEs you have to eliminate the null hypothesis first, and nobody has done anything vaguely close to that.

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[deleted] t1_ixihy0d wrote

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ArgentStonecutter t1_ixingxi wrote

That's not how science works. That's not how anything works.

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[deleted] t1_ixinrdw wrote

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ArgentStonecutter t1_ixinz8u wrote

Science says you can’t prove anything without evidence. You don’t have any evidence. You just have wishful thinking. That doesn’t mean it’s a fallacy it means it’s not even a testable theory.

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[deleted] t1_ixiofbz wrote

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SpiritedSort672 OP t1_ixj3rmp wrote

I'm not claiming to know what happens after death. By "pro-death fallacies" I meant the statements that Lex makes about death being necessary for life to have meaning.

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ArgentStonecutter t1_ixipnk4 wrote

I'm just objecting to you using NDEs as evidence.

You prefer "fantasies" then? Unless you're one of Heinlein's "true witnesses" you have to demand some level of support for anything you're going to stand for. Complaining that the word "fallacy" implies there's active proof against something that is basically 100% made up without any basis for considering it any more seriously than the Great Green Akleseizure or the Flying Spaghetti Monster is just churlish. You know it's nonsense.

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[deleted] t1_ixiq6x3 wrote

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ArgentStonecutter t1_ixiqkc5 wrote

No straw man. You brought up NDEs as support for your argument. I'm objecting to using NDEs as support for your argument. If you agree that they're not support for your argument after all, we're done.

Then you brought up "we can't argue about it because we don't REALLY know anything". We actually do know quite a lot, so THAT's a total straw man, but whatever. It's still not evidence that NDEs are evidence for anything.

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[deleted] t1_ixiu2kf wrote

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ArgentStonecutter t1_ixiulku wrote

They're not data.

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[deleted] t1_ixiym6d wrote

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ArgentStonecutter t1_ixiyvcy wrote

Completely unrelated. Even if there is some continuity of memory Beyond Death there is no reason to assume that it is anything but a dead record and has nothing to do with consciousness.

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HeinrichTheWolf_17 t1_ixik6c6 wrote

The burden of proof always lies on the person making the claim though, I’m willing to let science study NDEs or drug trips, but let’s not jump the gun like some people and say they got reality all figured out. Tool has a song about Psychonauts like that, it’s called Rosetta Stoned.

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SpiritedSort672 OP t1_ixhhxtj wrote

I use "death" as a synonym for "final end of life", and so does Lex. If there is life after death, then that's not death on my book, just a change of scenery.

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