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jeffsmith202 t1_iw0g99c wrote

does that also mean satellites will also last longer?

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lyacdi t1_iw0oil7 wrote

satellites toward the lower end of LEO: yes, assuming propulsion capability was previously the limiting factor (most often is)

otherwise, negligible

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backtotheland76 t1_ivzvr4s wrote

That does it! We MUST do something about climate change!

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SuaveMofo t1_iw0wj6b wrote

Nuts the amount of climate change deniers on a science focused subreddit. Y'all need to learn to shut your mouths and listen rather saying whatever "feels right" to you.

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Kittycreme t1_iw202pq wrote

Exactly! How do they even dare to question it!

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SuaveMofo t1_iw2ekjz wrote

Nothing wrong with disputing claims. But you need to be on the same level as the scientists who have spent significant amounts of their lives studying these topics. I guarantee you no layperson, meaning myself, you, or 99.9% of people who comment on this post (even most posts on Reddit or any other social media) are not qualified in the slightest to be disputing it. I was a scientific researcher, and that shit is hard, the majority of people would zone out once things stop being nice cute concepts to explain or overly simplified analogies. It isn't as simple as writing a "gotcha" comment and it shouldn't be; study of climate change is the study of one of the most, if not the most, complex system of variables humans have ever tried to conceptualize.

What I'm getting at is people who aren't actively involved in this, or any other scientific topic, are simply unequipped to present their own opinions as disputes because they have not developed the tools to do so. If you or anyone had, yoy would not be making smartass reddit comments and instead would be publishing your own paper and getting it peer-reviewed.

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ferrel_hadley t1_iw2k5qr wrote

Increasing CO2 makes the upper atmosphere more efficient at radiating heat to space. Its a key fingerprint of greenhouse gasses as opposed to other sources of heating. First predicted by the famous Manabe and Wetherald 1967 paper, one that really introduced computational modelling of the atmosphere.

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nmfpriv t1_iw34z8u wrote

Why is the thermosphere reducing? Global warming is about more CO2 or other greenhouses gases nothing related to whatever gases are 100km high..

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unlock0 t1_iw2uwho wrote

The research paper states that he (single researcher) is using a simulation model designed at altitudes below 140k and extending it to 700k. I'm going to take a guess and say they screwed it up since it defies current wisdom. Gas will diffuse and warm gas will rise. Warm air conveniently not propagating past the limit of the old model is suspect.

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[deleted] t1_iw0inpe wrote

[removed]

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Felaguin t1_iw0t7yu wrote

True but this one is funny because it’s the exact opposite of what we see every solar max.

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MrZorg58 t1_iw0uil1 wrote

Not to mention that air from earth is even found on the moon in very small amounts.

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Weatherman_Accuracy t1_iw0rf97 wrote

Oh…. Don’t worry friend. They’ve got a whole team sitting around thinking shit up and somebody backing them up.

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IgnacioHollowBottom t1_iw1vlzn wrote

One day the Earth will be a sphere made of little spheres that have even smaller spheres orbiting them which also have even smaller spheres orbiting those. Your home and possessions will be immaterial and all of your contacts and destinations are immediately accessible via quantum entanglement.

We will have mined and refined all of Earth into essential components for a greater mechanical and technological whole, culminating in an intergalactic sentience that travels the universe replicating itself until all material is localized and compressed into an infinitely dense cluster of atoms. Uh-oh.

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Felaguin t1_iw0t53q wrote

Here’s the problem with that claim. If the Earth is heating up, the atmosphere will expand and the atmospheric density at altitude will increase. In other words, heating will INCREASE drag and bring LEO debris down faster. We’ve seen this repeatedly over the last 3-4 decades as the Earth got hit with solar flares that temporarily heated the atmosphere, expanded it, and brought debris down. We see it every solar max.

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rocketsocks t1_iw18zkm wrote

The greenhouse effect as caused by atmospheric CO2 and methane traps heat like a blanket within the lower atmosphere. This has the adverse effect of causing cooling of the upper atmosphere, including the thermosphere which reaches into low Earth orbit. A cooler thermosphere reduces drag on satellites.

Solar activity results in a higher level of especially UV light which puffs out the outer atmosphere during solar max, but this is an external input not a change in how heat is distributed within the atmosphere which is what is going on with the greenhouse effect and climate change.

These details are all in the article, which I'm sure you read but forgot.

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SuaveMofo t1_iw0w6kv wrote

Here's the problem with your comment. You didn't read the article at all and are acting like a fuckin know it all.

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Felaguin t1_iw0wgze wrote

I did read the article but the premise is bullshit and flies in the face of decades of observation for anyone who has tracked satellites.

You can see this every solar max cycle. The atmosphere heats up when the Earth heats up. Drag increases on satellites in LEO because the atmosphere expands when it heats up. We have literally decades of data on this.

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SuaveMofo t1_iw0x7ft wrote

There is overwhelming evidence that the climate of the upper atmosphere is changing. While the troposphere shows a global warming trend, the middle and upper atmosphere (stratosphere, mesosphere, and thermosphere) have been cooling (e.g., Cnossen, 2012; Laštovička et al., 2006). This cooling results in thermal contraction, resulting in a lowering of ionospheric layers (Bremer et al., 2012; Rishbeth & Roble, 1992) and a reduction in thermosphere density at fixed height (Emmert, 2015; Keating et al., 2000; Weng et al., 2020). The increase in atmospheric CO2 concentration is thought to be the main driver of the global mean cooling and contraction of the upper atmosphere (e.g., Laštovička et al., 2006), with other trace gases playing a relatively minor role (Qian et al., 2013)

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SuaveMofo t1_iw0wt1t wrote

You didn't read the article because it specifically states that when the lower atmosphere is heated the upper atmosphere experiences the opposite. They have sources, you don't. They are scientists, you clearly are not. Stop running your mouth and let the people who know what they're doing do their work, because you don't have the answers.

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Felaguin t1_iw0xevt wrote

Mmm … no, that’s not how it works and you have no idea what data I have. But here’s a clue — you can actually download the element sets for the last 3 decades and look at the drag experienced at a variety of altitudes. The claim was specifically for 250 miles — 400 km — where we have a LOT of data because we tend to keep a very careful eye on objects at the same altitude as the ISS.

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