Submitted by BCLetsRide69 t3_123p7kt in sports
EasternMotors t1_jdwh1dh wrote
Reply to comment by Count_Joshoo in [Schefter] Lamar Jackson announces that he requested a trade March 2nd. by BCLetsRide69
Him not playing is the reason they aren't guaranteeing the money. He's not the best offense player if he doesn't run. If he doesn't run, he gets hurt at a much higher rate than a pocket passer.
OperationPhoenixIL t1_jdx8qyn wrote
This logic never works lol it’s legitimately one of the ways to not argue when learning debate or even some aspects of philosophy.
If he didn’t do “blank”, he wouldn’t be “blank” doesn’t mean anything.
WorldSeries2021 t1_jdxyasq wrote
Yeah, so that’s not true. And I took a hell of a lot of college rhetoric courses including advanced debate.
Hypotheticals have their limitations and are not dispositive, but saying they are inherently fallacious is entirely incorrect.
Count_Joshoo t1_jdwo9lw wrote
He’s also never been give a legit pass catcher. His pocket passing is fine and it’s a disproven myth that mobile QBs get hurt more. No matter what excuses you give he’s a top ten QB and an entire offense by himself. While I get nobody wanting to give him a Watson deal the Ravens are not being smart about this.
EasternMotors t1_jdwsmn3 wrote
He only wants a Watson deal. Watson's production and durability numbers are significantly better in the three years preceding his contract v last three for Lamar. He's not worth Watson money and the only team dumb enough to give it out already has Watson.
mlorusso4 t1_jdwsquf wrote
Never had a legit pass catcher? I guess mark Andrew’s doesn’t exist then. The offense the ravens ran never needed a superstar wr1. Their offense was a modified wing t with modern concepts worked in like a speed guy to open up the top. Yes, of course a premier wr would have been great, but it wasn’t required.
And when Lamar said he wasn’t happy with the receivers he was given, they went out and drafted Bateman in the first round. You’re not going to get an instant superstar that late in the 1st round, which is where the ravens always draft because they’re usually successful. They drafted back to back TE, one of which is pretty much a wr who’s above average at inside blocking.
And you say mobile qbs don’t get hurt more than pocket passers. Sure that may be true overall, I’m not going to fact check you. But Lamar specifically is injury prone. He’s undersized and taking significantly more hits than a pocket passer. And you see that proof by the fact that he has only played a full 16/17 game season once in his 5 years in the league. 2018: didn’t start until week 7. 2019: ok he technically didn’t play every game, but week 17 was a coaches decision for rest so we won’t count that. 2020: Covid year so he missed some games with illness but was knocked out of the playoff game with a concussion. 2021: knocked out week 14 and rest of season with an ankle injury. 2022: knocked out week 13 and missed the rest of the season with his knee injury. So all in all the most games he’s ever played in a season is 15
capswin t1_jdxmivu wrote
Not to mention doing a backflip into the end zone and injuring himself. Plus, who gets Covid 4 times?
EasternMotors t1_jdxxulz wrote
JFC! Is he an anti-vaxxer?
Count_Joshoo t1_jdx74os wrote
Andrews was a very good redzone target and a mediocre one everywhere else. And saying "they tried" doesn't and shouldn't matter to Lamar. The one that could play a tiny bit the dumped for nothing, and he was Lamar's best friend on the team. I don't think the Ravens have ever successfully drafted a WR.
The offense argument is also moot. That offense was designed to utilize his skills while he learned to be a pro style passer. IMHO he is perfectly capable of doing that now and deserves the weapons to throw too.
The money to build a team argument is also moot. They had his entire rookie deal to build a SB team and failed completely. Why should he trust that front office?
The injury point does have it's validity. I would argue that he quite likely could have played last year, but with his contact hanging over things I totally get why he choose to not play. The size issue is silly. He's almost the same size as Hurts. The Ravens also don't seem to like paying for pass protection. Again, why should he trust a front office that is still cashing in on it's old reputation?
As for the Watson comp, sure he played more games in his 3 years pre suspension than Lamar's last three, but.....Lamar won more games in that time with arguably lesser talent around him.
The anti-Lamar contingency is boarderline insane. He's a top ten QB with top 3 upside, he's a singular talent and a joy to watch.
Fun_Elk_1431 t1_jdxfmul wrote
I don’t know, I can’t think of a single mobile qb that wasn’t affected by injury. It might not happen more often, but mobile quarterbacks seem to rarely return to form….
Count_Joshoo t1_jdxmodn wrote
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra-points/2019/injury-proneness-running-qbs-overstated
https://www.fantasypoints.com/nfl/articles/season/2021/mobile-quarterbacks-and-injury-rates#/
It's not even a hard search.
The fact is that a player on the run is far less likely to take a hit that bends or twists the leg or makes them land on their throwing arm funny.
Fun_Elk_1431 t1_jdxogvw wrote
Randal Cunningham, mike Vick, Robert griffin, Dante culpepper, can newton, Donavan mcnabb… my point is not that drop back qbs don’t get hurt, nor is it that mobile qbs get hurt more. The point is when you take away the dual threat (due to injury) the player is no longer good.
But thanks for replying in an irrelevant way to the point
Count_Joshoo t1_jdxyelu wrote
This list is ignorant as hell. Did you just list black QBs? Randal had his best season after his injury and he had an actual offensive minded coach and weapons to throw too. Culpeper was not a running QB in any way, he was a lumbering giant who, coincidentally, also had incredible weapons to throw to. McNabb returned from his injury and had many productive years, bosltered by.....wait for it....an influx of pass catching talent at the end of his Eagles tenure. RG3 had a freak leg injury and a coach who hated him and didn't want him. Cam also had a good and long career.
Are you trolling or do you really think you made a good point? Holy fuck dude.
Edit: Holy shit I forgot Vick, who returned from his injury in year three and went on to play 7 more productive seasons as a starter and 3 more as a backup, including the best football of his career when he....stop me if you heard this before....landed with offense minded coaches and tons of pass catching weapons.
Edit 2.0: You didn't read a single article I posted. Damn.
Fun_Elk_1431 t1_jdyosle wrote
I almost responded, but what’s the point you be argumentatively correct, as opposed to conversing. It’s a list of top quarterbacks who relied heavily on their running and broken play ability, once that was gone the wins went too. Ps all these guys became backups. That’s not a position you earn by “flourishing”
Count_Joshoo t1_jdzhmq0 wrote
Except you are objectively wrong.
Edit: You did respond. You named multiple guys who had their best seasons after injuries, one guy who basically stopped being a running QB after one season (McNabb) and another who never was a running QB (Culpepper).
I bet you are like 20 and never watched Abby of these guys play. Three of them played for my team and I watched them all.
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