Comments
Smith6612 t1_j9xarnf wrote
It sort-of does, actually. Windows 10 is the transition OS between not having a TPM, and having a TPM. Any computer shipping with Windows 10 is supposed to have TPM Capabilities. It just wasn't mandated to install and run the OS. However, if you did have a TPM enabled and happened to be using a laptop or tablet, and had a Microsoft account signed in, BitLocker would enable for free.
tso t1_j9zmo0r wrote
> BitLocker would enable for free.
Now that is one massive Chekhov's footgun.
fishdybuns t1_ja09a5p wrote
I feel like I would get a lot more out of your post if I knew what TPM was.
Smith6612 t1_ja0x6tu wrote
Trusted Platform Module is what it stands for. It's a security device which can be used to store secrets like encryption keys, and other keys to verify whether a computer is running trustworthy code.
CaptainIowa t1_ja0y6r4 wrote
Check the second Google result for "TPM": What is a TPM? - Microsoft Support
Kursem_v2 t1_j9zz0rg wrote
BitLocker were only enabled through OEM configuration, usually business model.
by default, it'll still off regardless you have TPM 2.0 and Microsoft account.
Smith6612 t1_ja08eyp wrote
Maybe. I've seen BitLocker enable on the BYOC Framework laptops and an Acer laptop I have at home with fresh Windows installs. The Frameworks came without OEM editions of Windows, and unbundled keys. The only device I'd think would have BitLocker enabled by default would be the NuVision 8" Signature tablet, which shipped with Windows 10 originally.
The systems without BitLocker enabling automatically would be my desktops.
OverloadedConstructo t1_ja0qzqz wrote
I think bitlocker are not available in windows home edition
Smith6612 t1_ja0x43f wrote
Not configurable in the Home edition, but it's there. Microsoft calls it "Device Encryption" under the Settings menu. Only appears if you have a computer which is a candidate for what they call "Automatic Encryption."
Difference between Home and Pro is Home doesn't give you the option to save the key or use USB Authentication. Must go to the Microsoft account.
epic_null t1_j9yk3x9 wrote
Oh no Oh no
Oh no no no no no
Consumers should not have that by default do you understand how many hard drives my family has had to access via external readers this is a bad bad idea so much data is gonna get lost
Smith6612 t1_j9ynp52 wrote
They only encrypt the internal hard drive by default. Anything more requires paying for Windows Pro editions. At the point of auto encryption, it should only be a matter of them remembering the password to their Microsoft account.
That part I know can be challenging for many. They forget they even had an account!
epic_null t1_j9yp4rv wrote
The internal hard drive is what I have popped out of the system and put into a case for data recovery.
And if you can't decrypt an external without a pro account, that makes the problem WORSE not BETTER.
epic_null t1_j9yp7yh wrote
Oh yeah and because of pins, the chances of forgetting your windows account is HIGHER.
Because you aren't USING it.
Smith6612 t1_j9yyamw wrote
Yep you're not wrong. I've had a few of those come through where people ask me to clear the password from a computer they haven't used for months and forgot, only for me to find it's tied to a Microsoft account. I simply tell them they can go to <insert link here> to reset their password. Usually when I say that, it becomes dead air / Deer in headlights look, and they just seem to not want to reset their Microsoft account password. Maybe Microsoft could make it more obvious, or challenge people weekly for the password in order to sign in. I can remove the Microsoft account link, of course. It's just a big pain to do.
And yeah, for data recovery on a drive, have to get into the Microsoft account to retrieve the key. Return to above where the user forgot their credentials. Of course Microsoft doesn't tell people to back up their key before they encrypt the drive automatically so, yep.
epic_null t1_j9yz4em wrote
Hard drive encryption is GREAT for business who have an IT team. (Even just one guy who knows to back up that password.)
But for consumers? That shit shouldn't be on by default. The user has no clue what the risks of it are, and no warning that there are even risks to account for.
Smith6612 t1_j9z7y5s wrote
They should definitely prompt for it like Apple does/did on macOS. It can help consumers too, since computers do get stolen from homes all the time.
epic_null t1_j9zhbc4 wrote
There are benefits, no doubt, but personal experience tells me that the risk for a personal computer is more heavily leaning towards anything else happening, with the drive being the only recoverable bit. (This is reflected in how I choose and manage my machine, but may not be reflected in how people in higher theft areas choose and manage their machines. For obvious reasons.)
Exshot32 t1_j9z7squ wrote
I work in a repair store.
NO customer ever knows their drive is Bitlocker or Filevault encrypted. NONE.
I'm on board with encryption for consumer protection, but Microsoft and Apple do a horrid job of explaining what they are doing to your data. They want you using their cloud services. So encrypting your drive with auto cloud backup becomes kinda a sneaky maneuver.
If they just explained things better I'd be fully on board with this. But no one understands why I can't get their data from a dead machine with an encrypted drive. And good luck remembering your Microsoft or iCloud password and finding your recovery keys.
epic_null t1_j9zdcg4 wrote
I'm not saying don't make it available - just have the user turn it on at some point. Then if customers make a bad decision, at least then they'll have made a bad decision and understand why there's now a bigger problem.
UnderstandingSome901 t1_ja1159m wrote
Yeah 11 is just so finicky still, I'm still so annoyed that it forced me to upgrade when I declined it
SeverusSnek2020 t1_ja11ozz wrote
What it did was force the industry to move forward with TPM enabled by default. Microsoft was just the poster of being the asshole for actually making it happen.
taz-nz t1_j9xde0s wrote
Microsoft never said Windows 10 final version of Windows, the actual quote was:
“Right now we’re releasing Windows 10, and because Windows 10 is the last version of Windows, we’re all still working on Windows 10,”
If you change the "last version" to the "latest version" or "last version released" you get the true meaning of what the developer was trying to say. The last version ever was never the official narrative.
sputnikv t1_j9xhpnw wrote
> Microsoft never said Windows 10 final version of Windows
they did, multiple times.
taz-nz t1_j9xi06k wrote
Find me the quote from an official source, not a third party.
sputnikv t1_j9xme73 wrote
it’s in the wikipedia, have your pick of the cited sources
taz-nz t1_j9xnk78 wrote
Thank you for at least trying, but after reading all the cited sources, none of them official quote Microsoft as saying Windows 10 is the last Windows, the first article comes the closest with actual quote from Microsoft talking about Windows as a service and a change in the way they make their revenue stream, but the last two are just third party misquote of the original developer as I quoted above.
[deleted] t1_j9yjaan wrote
[deleted]
BCProgramming t1_ja1hopw wrote
Yes, that quote was from Jerry Nixon at the 2015 Ignite conference.
And the interpretation was in the air. That is why many news outlets and web magazines asked Microsoft for clarification- Is Windows 10 the last version of windows they will make? In a statement to Network World, A Microsoft spokesperson said this:
>"Recent comments at Ignite about Windows 10 are reflective of the way Windows will be delivered as a service bringing new innovations and updates in an ongoing manner, with continuous value for our consumer and business customers. We aren’t speaking to future branding at this time, but customers can be confident Windows 10 will remain up-to-date and power a variety of devices from PCs to phones to Surface Hub to HoloLens and Xbox. We look forward to a long future of Windows innovations."
They don't seem to really be clearing it up here. Like he writes in the article, they cleared up nothing- you'd think if Nixon meant the most recent version, they'd just- clarify that. The author theorizes it probably won't be the last version, though not with any of the clarification that Microsoft provided.
Over the successive few years, people continued to raise this question; they received the same sort of answer from Microsoft. There would be no "new" release of Windows, it would be more of a service going forward. Fact is " The last version ever was never the official narrative." is absolutely gaslighting at this point. The entire reason so many people asked about it on Microsoft answers and various other official and semi-official locations was because the idea that Windows 10 was the last version of Windows was *so fucking idiotic and beggared belief, and at no step of the way did Microsoft EVER clarify and say there would be future windows versions, Instead they doubled down on every single official statement, saying Windows 10 would be the "last full release" of Windows, and that it would be a service, and so on.
Here's a bunch of links for review.
When Win11 rumours started to float around, there were more questions. So people asked, "Will there be a Windows 11?". For example, here, on June 15th, 2021.
They provide an screenshot of the leaked build. The responses, which, in this case aren't from Microsoft, so aren't "official" but are nonetheless answers on the official forum by long-time members of said forum:
"Currently, Windows 11 is an Internet myth, and Microsoft say there will be no Windows 11, that screenshot you have provided is a scam."
Another person asked here sometime earlier in 2020. They got this:
"Windows 11 is just an internet hoax. "
"Microsoft has stated that there will be no Windows 11."
Another one was asked here in 2019.
"The schedule that has been previously stated is twice yearly major updates to Windows 10 and that Windows 10 will be the last version of Windows."
"It's worth noting that it has been announced that there is a User Interface overhaul planned to be released in 2021. This is NOT a new Operating System, but will change the look of Windows 10, so may confuse some people into thinking that there is a new OS coming. Whereas if anything, this indicates that Windows 10 is here to stay for the foreseable. "
"The closest thing to a new version of Windows would be an update that drops 10, and so it is just called windows"
Some others kept asking occasionally.
And received the same sort of response. "Windows 11 is an internet hoax."
"There is currently no Windows 11 or 12 in the development plans" -Donata.C, Independent Advisor, January 20th, 2021.
marked as answer: "Microsoft said Windows 10 is the last and they will update it a couple times a year".
Also replied with:
"Sorry to say but there will be no Windows 11. Windows 11 is currently an internet myth. Not all information what you see in the internet is true and those were fake news. Microsoft is focus in improving and updating Windows 10 in a continuous basis releasing two feature updates per year. The first feature update for this year is the May 2020 Windows version 2004."
At some point, a particular MVP got so annoyed at people asking, he created a thread and pinned it specifically to address the question. There is no Windows 11, in October 2020, saying "However, starting Windows 10 everything has been changed. There is no longer anything call Service Pack and there is no plan to release any successor to Windows 10 like what is going around with name Windows 11."
Pretty much everybody on Microsoft's official forums laughed at the idea of win11. Hell, even when there WAS A FUCKING LEAKED BUILD they said it was "a scam"!
But then, after Win11 was announced They ALL changed their tune. everything posted after that- calling out that Microsoft had said it was the last version, that all the official community moderators and staff and general userbase that had constantly said that Windows 10 was officially going to be the last version, acted like that didn't happen. They went from "Microsoft has said Windows 10 will be the last version" and were now suddenly saying "actually, they never officially said that Windows 10 was the last version".
Nowadays when people point it out, there's always somebody popping in going "acshually there's no official source from Microsoft saying it was the last version"; Nixon said it was the last version of Windows, and a spokesperson clarified that what he said reflected how Windows would be developed going forward. Like, yeah, they clarified specifically it would be the last version, but they never really clarified a damn thing because it was just worthless marketing copy. Nonetheless, For 6 long years everybody asking if it was the last version, or asking if there was going to be a Windows 11, were practically laughed out of Microsoft official support forums. So miss me with that "acshually it was never official" bullshit, because that's at best a technicality and at worse a case of Microsoft literally not clarifying anything ever, and leaving their army of sycophants to deal with the questions so that later people can claim "well acshually that's not an official source" Because Microsoft refused to actually speak plainly on the issue, insisting on all copy being some say-nothing marketing tripe.
JustHanginInThere t1_j9yk8d2 wrote
The computer that I put together in 2020 with almost top of the line components somehow didn't meet the requirements for Win 11. At some point, an update was installed and magically it was good to upgrade to Win 11. I still haven't upgraded, and likely won't for a long while, but I found that to be very odd from the start.
SizeIntelligent2782 t1_ja0dy17 wrote
Then you probably have TPM but it's turned off in BIOS, and the new checker figured it out
hallowass t1_ja0f2mf wrote
I disabled the tpm in bios on purpose because i dont see any benifit to upgrade to w11.
Whatamianoob112 t1_ja2ehl7 wrote
Yup. Don't want any accidental "upgrades".
MagicDragon212 t1_ja0q7jw wrote
This is almost always why people "don't meet the requirements." But to be fair, I wouldn't expect the average user to look into it or ever enter their BIOS
commodore_kierkepwn t1_ja1axwo wrote
Mine was from 2019 and top line and barely missed the cutoff on having a TPM. It sucks because the rig is still viable
chadford t1_ja3gvot wrote
Quite a few mobos of that era supported tpm, just didn't install one. It may be as simple as buying, installing on the right pins, and enabling in bios.
ModsGropeKids t1_ja18ont wrote
Every time the computer restarts it's like an advertising pop up telling you that you won a free iphone. I don't want windows 11 bruh, leave me alone.
chevalier716 t1_ja1f5jh wrote
Mine took some wrangling to update; for a while my system said it didn't have enough memory on the disc to install, I have two discs there's plenty of room on it.
jmcstar t1_j9x2ro0 wrote
Windows 11, aka Windows Fail
wellmaybe_ t1_j9xubo2 wrote
honestly, i never had a customer complaining about win11. it usually goes like "oh the windows button is now in the middle? right mouse button menu is now weird" but after that the just work with it. its not a perfect os, but compared to the usual crying customers do when they have to learn a new os, win11 is very mild.
b_a_t_m_4_n t1_j9ya2a0 wrote
Windows users have been trained over many ears, some decades, to take what they're given and just deal with it. Windows is what comes with the PC and they just assume that that's the way things are.
Odysseyan t1_j9ygk6r wrote
Well you don't have much choice. You can either go Linux if you are good with tech (yes it is more beginner friendly but the terminal is always around the corner) and are not too much into PC gaming. Or mac if you also hate gaming but got more money. Else you are stuck with Windows
FlyingCockAndBalls t1_j9yw2k5 wrote
gaming on linux is making huge strides thanks to steam and proton
b_a_t_m_4_n t1_j9yi8uo wrote
Exactly my point. Windows users don't complain about Windows much because it's basically like it or lump it. Don't Like it? Buy a MAC.
Like they don't complain about the UI that comes with their TV. You get what you get, learn to live with it, buy a different make next time.
The average Windows user has never even heard of Linux and would have no idea how to install any OS, including Windows.
[deleted] t1_j9ykis0 wrote
[deleted]
Alan976 t1_j9zb6ee wrote
SOME power users complain a lot.
b_a_t_m_4_n t1_j9ykljy wrote
Move to Linux.
madhi19 t1_j9yheku wrote
The terminal is also always around the corner in Windows.
cu3ed t1_j9yemc9 wrote
MS Ear Training camp did have some tough modules to pass to be fair.
Kursem_v2 t1_j9zzmve wrote
you can just change it back to the left on settings.
epic_null t1_j9ykc5b wrote
I primary Linux and try not to complain about my work machine because I understand it is the company's, not mine but dw I have complaints.
drmcbrayer t1_ja1b3r6 wrote
I fucking love win 11 over 10.
astromaddie t1_j9x64ry wrote
Since Microsoft skipped Windows 9 to make Windows 10, the old wisdom that “even number Windows releases suck” apparently held true to become “odd number Windows releases suck”.
Alan976 t1_j9zbw8v wrote
Nah; Microsoft skipped Windows 9 due to the sheer fact to avoid conflict with third-party code that searches for "Windows 9"
if(version.StartsWith("Windows 9"))
{ /* 95 and 98 */ } else {
Also, the whole"odd number Windows releases are bad" is just arbitrary, someone's preference, and asinine.
taz-nz t1_j9x9kzb wrote
Actual list of major Windows releases:
Win 95 average
Win 95(B) OSR2 good
Win 95 (C) bad (test bed for 98)
Win 98 bad
Win 98 SE average (livable when running 98lite to remove crashtasic active desktop)
Win ME bad (basically test bed for Win XP features)
Win XP average
Win XP SP1 average-good
Win XP SP2 good
Win XP SP3 great
Win XP 64bit hot garbage.
Win Vista average (bad for old hardware & software and underspec'd machines)
Win Vista 64bit SP1 & SP2good (5-20% performance bump over Win XP on same hardware)
Win 7 good
Win 7 SP1-onwards great
Win 8 bad
Win 8.1 average
Win 10 good
Win 10 1709-onwards great
Win 11 average-good
Yeah there is totally a good bad cycle, if you just put on the ross tinted glasses, and ignore 80% of major releases.
astromaddie t1_j9xa6nj wrote
Thanks for the “every reply has to be an argument” reddit treatment. If you ignore the post-release updates to the system, and paint broad strokes because this is just nerd humour and stop taking everything so seriously, you’ve got:
- Win95: good
- Win98: bad
- WinXP (skipping ME because it was a weird mid-cycle release testbed): good
- Win Vista: bad
- Win7: good
- Win8: bad
- Win10: good
- Win11: bad
Microsoft has almost always had good longterm support for their OSes to iron things out, so if you include every major update of course there’s no pattern.
Jristz t1_j9xrep2 wrote
You skipped 8.1 but I gonna use the same argument you did for ME and call 8.1 "weird mid-cycle"
taz-nz t1_j9xbjec wrote
You're modifying the list to fit your narrative, not reality.
Many of the Windows versions you list as good, didn't start out that way, you list Vista as bad when it was actual good if you were running descent spec system (I can point you to benchmarks that's show it was faster than XP on the same hardware). You ignore a whole Windows release because it doesn't fit your narrative.
It's dishonest.
EndUserGamer t1_j9xc74a wrote
Yeah, but there is some truth here. Every other OS has nearly always been the way to go.
taz-nz t1_j9xhto0 wrote
Except if you skipped Windows 98, there was a whole range of games, software and hardware (USB) you couldn't use.
Windows XP had some major hate when it was release, people called it the Playmobil OS due to the colour scheme, and a host of older hardware and software wasn't supported due to changes in Kernel and Driver model.
Skipping Windows Vista was easy to do due to the hate train everyone got on, but if you had a 64bit CPU you were wasting a huge chunk of your systems performance. (Windows XP 64bit wasn't an option, as it was just a cut down version of Server 2003 and had major compatibility issues.)
Windows 11 isn't a bad OS, it just requires modern hardware features, my biggest issues with it is I can't move the taskbar to the top of the screen without a hack or third-party software, and I'm not a fan of the new start menu, but I pin most Apps I use to the taskbar so really doesn't matter. But it's stable it supports new hardware features, it's still works like Windows (no Windows 8 how do I use this thing).
MetricVeil t1_j9y6vmo wrote
SaaS (Software as a Service) is the new financial model. People who can't afford a monthly/yearly subscription plan for Windows will, reluctantly, start to migrate to other, non-subscription, OS platforms.
HolyAndOblivious t1_j9ybk81 wrote
That would hurt MS. MS is banking on pirates lol.
tso t1_j9zna3x wrote
MS has banked on home piracy since the days of Gates.
Guy himself admitted somewhere that he much preferred people pirate MS software for home use vs adopt alternatives.
Because doing so allowed MS to argue that companies didn't need to train new employees in using MS products, because they were already used to them from home.
Exshot32 t1_j9z7ysi wrote
The Pro market and office subscriptions (and selling user data) far out way the losses of losing a few consumer class customers.
HolyAndOblivious t1_j9zcfok wrote
Lolno. The greatest problem for MS is to train the next generation of users. Think of your kids. What happens if people abandon ms and office en mass? Simply put, MS will be fucked on the pro market because people are not trained in windows and office.
DrB00 t1_j9zjx4p wrote
They already aren't. Soo many office jobs require excel and directory management and the sort and a lot of people fresh out of school are completely clueless. They grow up with chrome books and phones where everything is locked down. They get into the office and have zero idea how to even do the basic operations on windows.
Hitroll2121 t1_j9zzmb5 wrote
This is so true in my school we had to unzip a file for class and the number of people that had no clue how to do that kind of scares me
Helgafjell4Me t1_j9zf7x8 wrote
But Win11 isn't a paid service, so what are you saying? I haven't paid for Windows at all since Win7. Win10 and 11 have both been basically free upgrades on existing computers, although I have yet to actually upgrade any of mine to 11. I'm holding out as long as I can, plus it's said all my machines don't meet the requirements anyways.
Edit: basically new computers for a while now had their windows licensing tied to the computer itself as long as it wasn't a custom built machine. That license works for newer version upgrades or at least has for me for the last 8 years or so.
MetricVeil t1_j9zi2cr wrote
>But Win11 isn't a paid service, so what are you saying?
Perhaps I should have been clearer. Microsoft seems to be transitioning to a SaaS payment model. It won't happen all at once. Products like Microsoft 365 (formerly Office 365) are already moving in that direction.
Cloud services are profitable.
Helgafjell4Me t1_j9zijfk wrote
Yes, but they require an OS to work, I don't think they'll do that to the OS because too many people would probably ditch both the OS and the sub services that run on it.
Edit: think inkjet cartridges... the printers were cheap because they made money on the ink.
MetricVeil t1_j9zo3bd wrote
Whilst the OS, itself, might remain as a one-time payment, the number of in-built components may start to switch to a subscription service - over time.
Microsoft will follow the money.
Kairukun90 t1_ja19iz0 wrote
I had my pirated copy upgrade to windows ten which when forced me to make a windows account which then tied that cd key/copy to the account and legitimately have a copy. So now I just sign onto my account when ever I reformat or even change cpus/mobos it doesn’t matter.
Blackfire01001 t1_j9zk77u wrote
No TPM can go fuck its corporate overlord bullshit. DO NOT turn my PC into a cell phone.
Kursem_v2 t1_j9zzf8w wrote
what's wrong with TPM 2.0?
Blackfire01001 t1_ja04cvl wrote
My software should not be tied to my Hardware Or vice versa
Kursem_v2 t1_ja04klu wrote
what do you mean? software has always been requiring features from hardware to work properly.
EDIT: I'm genuinely curious here, would someone kindly answer me instead of just downvoting? I don't mind the downvote, but none has answered my question so far...
altrdgenetics t1_ja1h0fq wrote
This can lead to a future of serial number locking. Meaning 1 PC license no longer means one install but one install to a specific device, non-transferable
Kursem_v2 t1_ja1mfy5 wrote
this has been the case to an extend, though. if you replaces part of your hardware, you might lose your windows license.
and, that doesn't requires TPM, it only needs your hardware IDs. so TPM are irrelevant to that future.
Fassbenderfan t1_j9ybhjt wrote
I don't know enough about windows 11 but I am scared to update it.
tire-fire t1_j9yd0x3 wrote
The UI is just off putting. I hated 10 at first but I've grown to like it, in the lastest form it doesn't feel radically different coming from 7. Windows 11 just feels like a phone OS pretending to be a desktop, feels like Windows 8 all over again. I really don't get why they can't just leave things more or less alone in that regard, give me a goddamn recognizable pop-up start menu and a task bar like we had for a couple decades.
Funkybeatzzz t1_j9yqpvq wrote
I found it ridiculous you can’t change the taskbar location on Win11. I hook my laptop up to two external monitors and landing on the taskbar docked at the bottom of the screen is so insanely annoying with extended desktops.
DrB00 t1_j9zkaxj wrote
You can't change the task bar location? Eww wtf. I always have my Taskbar on the left hand side as I have another monitor on the right side.
Funkybeatzzz t1_j9zkje3 wrote
Yep, it’s absurd. It’s stuck at the bottom. I keep mine on the left on my separate screens.
forthe_loveof_grapes t1_ja00szr wrote
This is my #1 reason for hating it. 15 years I've had my taskbar on the left. Why do they want me to hate it???
Funkybeatzzz t1_ja02x1u wrote
It makes absolutely zero sense that they wouldn’t give the option to move it. Can anyone give any good reason to have it permanently locked to the bottom?
Sinowhino t1_ja0wizi wrote
The crazy thing is there is absolutely no reason to change it.
You can make additions without taking out the old. Like being able to switch back to windows 10 view and putting in a new one.
They keep trying to force this on us for no reason.
Windows we really don't want it, just stop.
Kursem_v2 t1_ja0010p wrote
wimdows 10 were built on metro design language introduced in 8, it is radically different than aero design from vista / 7 era, as much as fluent design language in windows 11 are "radically different".
you're just accustomed to windows 10.
JiBBy23 t1_j9yhzf1 wrote
I'm glad this is getting some publicity, I've got a Lenovo Ideapad now that had this happen. None of the drivers worked and it went into a continuous BSOD cycle. I had to wipe and re-install Win10 and now 2 drivers are busted and can't seem to resolve anymore... Thx a ton, MS
Atticus_Fatticus t1_ja0a0p5 wrote
If you can open it in safe mode turn off memory integrity. I was having constant BSOD cycle on boot up until I turned that off. Still have not found a solution yet.
GOR098 OP t1_j9zd91p wrote
Did you take it to any Official Lenovo service center?
JiBBy23 t1_j9zvozq wrote
I used to be an IBM tech for thinkpads a long long time ago :P Definitely not a pebcak hehe
Ok-Party-3033 t1_j9yrgtl wrote
I’m curious whether MS will disable Win10 before releasing Win12. That would suck.
Kursem_v2 t1_ja00kcu wrote
"disable" isn't the right word. Microsoft simply won't support Windows 10 at some point. that point are at least 2025 for consumer, 2027 for ltsc, or 2032 for iot.
you can still use it, though. you just won't get security updates anymore.
rastilin t1_ja426r7 wrote
No, disable probably is the right word. They'll push a "remote kill" update and one day the Windows 10 machines just won't make it past the login screen.
Kursem_v2 t1_ja42cr7 wrote
never happened to any previous retail windows.
rastilin t1_ja42nmw wrote
Windows 7 had an upgrade popup where the top right "x" button scheduled a midnight update, and no previous version of Windows had forced updates that you can't disable.
Kursem_v2 t1_ja42xk4 wrote
you can just pause updates indefinitely. besides, my point stands still that microsoft has never released a remote kill update. no indication that they'll do it now.
rastilin t1_ja43a4e wrote
You can't pause updates infinitely. The updates will restart and then force an install.
Microsoft has never had an opportunity to force people to upgrade, DOS didn't get updates. Up until Windows XP updates were something that for most people didn't happen outside of a service pack. Windows 7 had a surprise upgrade shoved out for it. Windows 10 is the first version of Windows that doesn't let you not upgrade. Someone in Microsoft will get the idea that they can just make people upgrade.
Kursem_v2 t1_ja44evh wrote
besides, correlation doesn't mean causation.
"oh, microsoft has forced updates, next they're gonna have remote kill to force upgrade rrreee".
yeah, right. sounds like a recipe for a lawsuit. microsoft just stop updating windows 10 in 2025 for consumer anyway. if you don't want to upgrade then don't, there's others who're willing. but no need to make a bogus statement.
GOR098 OP t1_j9zd1r5 wrote
You can't buy it anymore I think. But they are gonna support it till 2025. So, that's a good thing.
Few-Lemon8186 t1_j9zgmxp wrote
I wonder what they will do by 2025, Windows 11 is already Vista 2.0 in the business world, no company is upgrading their computers from 10 to 11, I’m sure they will all just jump to Windows 12, Whenever that is.
ObreroJimenez t1_j9yxhk9 wrote
That's okay. Just wait until Microsoft arbitrarily forces everyone's PC to upgrade over night to Windows 11. People will have the joy of waking up to a bricked machine.
Odd-Attention-2127 t1_j9yxux4 wrote
My processor doesn't support Windows 11. I'm not ready to upgrade it though. Microsoft keeps pushing requirements that sometimes it's hard for me to tell when it's about improving their bottom line versus implementing real security measures. People like me don't have it like that to go through a rebuild every few years, at the rate Microsoft keeps coming up with new versions of the OS anyway.
GOR098 OP t1_j9zcwm6 wrote
Microsoft has announced that Windows 10 will be supported till 2025. So you shoud be fine for more than 2 years.
These days new laptop come with new OS installed. So if you buy a new machine then you should get the OS with it.
Profitsofdooom t1_ja14j93 wrote
I just ordered a new custom machine for work and asked them to install 10 on it haha
Daimakku1 t1_j9z90ha wrote
Yeah I'm not enabling TPM so f*ck off Microsoft.
dubiousadvocate t1_ja00dgt wrote
Microsoft wants to make Windows the equivalent of a 1998 Geocities web page. I use Brave browser to avoid this kind of obtrusiveness. I guess now I need a Brave Windows OS.
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alexcutyourhair t1_j9yac6b wrote
My work laptop updated itself to Windows 11 this week without me knowing and I'm still angry. Entire rollout has been a mess imo
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JazJon t1_j9zilac wrote
When I learned my i7 CPU wasn’t supported I eventually gave up all together and bought a Mac Mini M2 pro several months later. I’m done with windows and really enjoying the one apple ecosystem vibe already having an iPhone iPad etc.
Anaxamenes t1_j9zyk3l wrote
It gets annoying when a perfectly good MacBook Pro stops being allowed to get their new OS though. It’s starting to limit what software I have but the laptop works great. It’s apparently unavoidable.
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Carl_Wild t1_ja0hcmi wrote
My laptop doesnt even have enough ram to run windows 11, yet I still get offers. My old laptop has barely enough for windows 10, and it gets the offers.
SliSon t1_ja0mkf4 wrote
Im sure my old Laptop from 2012 will run smoothly on Windowd 11
jubular t1_ja0z683 wrote
My gaming PC can't be upgraded but somehow my grandmother's 300 dollar all one in one HP was able to and now it runs like dog shit.
GOR098 OP t1_ja1f9jy wrote
Do you have that TPM in bios ? Sometimes it has to be enabled.
IzzytheMelody t1_ja108fn wrote
If wanting it is a requirement, I dont meet it
unknown_elemental t1_ja15b7k wrote
My girlfriend installed it on her gaming laptop and now it runs like shit. Any tips on how to re-install Windows 10?
GOR098 OP t1_ja1fidp wrote
Is there any recovery disk ? Else you may have to find a Windows 10 image if you have the activation key already.
unknown_elemental t1_ja5sguq wrote
I would check, but she also dropped it yesterday so, oh well. Thanks for the help.
Kairukun90 t1_ja1acwk wrote
I must be the lone person enjoying windows 11 🤷♂️
coloa t1_ja1hpqq wrote
Even if my system is qualified for the upgrade, should I? I've been using Windows 10 for years and must say it's very solid and fast. But well, newer is better?
GOR098 OP t1_ja25pfi wrote
Check out video reviews and decide for yourself.
Bearet t1_ja2k2vf wrote
Windows 11 is still a work in progress. I would wait for Windows 12 to come out sometime in 2024 or 2025 before upgrading. Remember, in Canada you must log in all the time now with your Microsoft account credentials so that you and your online activity can be tracked.
VincentNacon t1_j9y4fdt wrote
Take Linux instead. Don't let the visual update fool you.
papetrov99 t1_j9y5zc1 wrote
I would but they look pretty bad, break in weird ways and you cant game. Been the issue for forever.
Dancing7-Cube t1_j9ym2rb wrote
I play 95% of my Steam library just fine on Ubuntu. Proton is really good.
Qwrty8urrtyu t1_ja0nzsn wrote
>I play 95% of my Steam library just fine on Ubuntu.
Most people prefer to play 100% of their games to work, and most online games with anticheat will just not run on Linux.
Bratkartov t1_j9y88zl wrote
C‘mon…. Sounds like you looked at some Linux 25 years ago.
papetrov99 t1_j9ya488 wrote
Can you recommend one that doesn't have these issues? I mean gaming is off on all but most have trouble with basic functions like screen splitting. I've tried mint and ubuntu, both look like something out of 2014.
SanDiegoDude t1_j9ylu88 wrote
Honestly, the latest version of Ubuntu is pretty solid, had an old windows laptop SSD fail and tossed the latest version of Ubu on there to do some network server duties... but was pleasantly surprised how modern and just how much better the UI is. I'm not new to Linux either, I've got it running on a few things around the house, but mostly just CLI... Still not a "flawless" experience, since I ran into some issues with swap memory that was causing mysterious crashes when loading AI models until I spent a few hours researching and figured it out, but I could confidently hand this laptop to "non nerd" and they could use it for all their daily light computer tasks just fine. This is the first version of Linux where I really feel comfortable saying that (at least for mainstream distros, I know there's been a few "EZLinux" attempts over the years)
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LoafyLemon t1_j9yyddu wrote
I'd recommend giving Pop!_OS a try, System76 wrote their own modules to solve lots of Ubuntu and gnome issues.
In my experience it works great.
papetrov99 t1_ja6vpa5 wrote
I ended up going with this. Trying it out on my older laptop, thinkpad t460. To be fair already 1.: Couldn't play mkv file with the default video player, had to get VLC and 2.: When you minimize/maximize tabs it does a weird flicker in the top left corner which is a known bug related to some gnome animation.
This is kind of just funny to me, but really these imperfections are very obvious when you install any kind of linux, some don't have basic video codecs installed. I can get around and fix all of the issues, it's just not a good user experience.
GOR098 OP t1_j9zdk3t wrote
Have you tried Kubuntu ?
Bratkartov t1_j9zi02q wrote
Its a matter of taste, personally im Happy with Ubuntu studio 20.04 and XFCE Desktop. You probably only have seen Gnome based Desktop Environments, so maybe you should try another DE like KDE or XFCE or anything else.
Bratkartov t1_ja0w4mx wrote
Also , I have no idea why you think you can't game on Linux ? There is Steam & Proton / WINE / Heroic Game Launcher etc. which allows you to play a huge pile of Windows games on Linux.
papetrov99 t1_ja2banx wrote
Why are you coping. Yes you can play a lot of games, and a lot of times you cant or you have to mess around for hours to get one working. It's far from plug and play, its a bunch of open source projects.
scalyblue t1_ja65hfr wrote
to be fair, linux mint is designed around being run on low-spec machines.
henry999c t1_j9yepiw wrote
I love Linux but you’re right
b_a_t_m_4_n t1_j9ya7lu wrote
The main problem with Linux is clueless idiots trying to impress everyone with how clued in they are by parroting something their mate told them about Linux up the pub 10 years ago.
papetrov99 t1_j9yaest wrote
My experience with linux is that its super good for the basic stuff but as soon as you want to do something more complex that you do on windows you can run into weird issues where you end up spending hours looking through config files. Just keep using them on servers imo until Google or someone else decides to make something that works well.
b_a_t_m_4_n t1_j9ybyb1 wrote
I use it as my daily driver for everything. I've been designing my house for the past two years. I just don't recognize this picture you paint.
Have I spent a few hours fiddling with config files to get some esoteric bit of hardware working? Yes. Have I spent a few hours fiddling with drivers and the registry to get some esoteric bit of hardware working in Windows? Again yes. Once, when I set the system up.
IME Linux, once set up stays set up. It's Windows that randomly breaks, chokes itself on it own bloat and commits suicide by update.
FlyingCockAndBalls t1_j9ywjy4 wrote
Fr. Almost every time linux has broken on me, it was entirely my fault. Only thing I can think of that wasn't my fault was a bad grub update but that took less than 5 minutes to fix. Meanwhile I've had windows just spontaneously break for absolutely no reason
b_a_t_m_4_n t1_j9yxcvv wrote
Ah well, we won't talk about the times I broke Linux by poking bits I didn't understand properly....
__i_hate_reddit t1_ja1gtq4 wrote
oooh what are you using to design your house?
b_a_t_m_4_n t1_ja2ijl1 wrote
I'm using Blender. It's saved me, I don't know how many, thousands of pounds going round the design consultation loop with an architect because by the time we handed them the brief we had already honed it down to what we wanted and they just made some regulatory adjustments before going straight on to planning.
LoafyLemon t1_j9yx37y wrote
That's old news, I moved to Linux 7 months ago or so, and everything works without tinkering, including all games I play.
What's important is the distribution you pick, because despite what some say, it does matter a lot.
I'm running Pop!_OS, which is the 'no bullshit' option.
papetrov99 t1_ja6vrrk wrote
I ended up going with this. Trying it out on my older laptop, thinkpad t460. To be fair already 1.: Couldn't play mkv file with the default video player, had to get VLC and 2.: When you minimize/maximize tabs it does a weird flicker in the top left corner which is a known bug related to some gnome animation.
This is kind of just funny to me, but really these imperfections are very obvious when you install any kind of linux, some don't have basic video codecs installed. I can get around and fix all of the issues, it's just not a good user experience.
LoafyLemon t1_ja812rl wrote
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Proprietary codecs suck, there's nothing they can do because it would be illegal to ship those with a system without paying them a ransom for every installation. The solution is to stop using them and move on to open formats like AV1.
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I've never had that bug, but you might be happy to hear Pop OS will be moving away from gnome, they're working on COSMIC, it should give them more finer control over the distribution.
papetrov99 t1_ja8q0uk wrote
Yea heard they're working on that in Rust, pretty nice hopefully it comes out soon.
papetrov99 t1_ja8u3di wrote
Also the package manager GUI lags if you search, kinda amateur. Also this is gnome again but why is there a calendar that I can sync google calendar into if I then cannot click on any days to view my events/appointments... Also if they have to subsidize codecs why not just install VLC as default which can play anything.
epic_null t1_j9yl58i wrote
What part of the look do you dislike? There are different UIs, and gaming has gotten better (not 100%, but better)
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papetrov99 t1_j9ygq8z wrote
That aint true but okay
epic_null t1_j9yklm9 wrote
I would change from any to most. There are a few that won't run and a few that are really broken.
Still, I can see real effort on Steam's part.
BohemianAddict t1_ja0etfv wrote
F*ck MS and their crappy business model. I’m not updating our gaming rigs for Win11 or any of their shit.
Ubuntu here we come
luxtabula t1_j9x74vp wrote
Windows 11 didn't make any sense on rollout. Having it dependent on TPM 2.0 just seemed arbitrary. They should have continued with keeping windows 10 as the final version of windows and quietly added a TPM requirements when enough machines had it.