[deleted] t1_j9kam23 wrote
[deleted]
acosmichippo t1_j9kck5f wrote
>Plus the article says it's registered to the author's partner so please lend me an arm, I gotta facepalm.
that's the root of the issue here. There should be a way to share AirTags with family.
Youvebeeneloned t1_j9klutn wrote
The problem becomes people using it to stalk as mentioned.
phoenix1984 t1_j9ko9p7 wrote
Right, an air tag that’s shared with family increases transparency. The AirTag can still function as it’s meant to, but wouldn’t alert when my wife takes our dog to the park without me. It would be useless for stalking my wife because she would be able to see the AirTag and its location in her account too. As for handling breakups, Apple has a great privacy checkup tool that lets you completely separate your shared data with someone instantly.
The solution here is shared AirTags. No added risk, fewer false positives which in turn make people safer because they’re more likely to trust the alerts they get.
maru11 t1_j9lk13q wrote
You would still have to check the app ever now and then to see if your partner is stalking you, because it would not pro-actively trigger an alert right it does right now. I understand Apple, that this not as easy of a choice as it seams. Also probably hard to get if you’re not thinking in these scenarios or if you’re not affected by domestic abuse.
phoenix1984 t1_j9lkr4q wrote
That’s not really helped or hurt with shared tags. If my wife already shares her location with me, there is no added risk to her if our dog’s location is also shared.
maru11 t1_j9lm2b8 wrote
As I said, this is not as easy. A family account doesn’t force you to share your device location - you can just have it off and still be in the family account.
How does adding an AirTag work? Does it send a motivation to every family member that it was added? Does your wife say it’s for the dog, you agree to adding it, and suddenly it’s in your car stalking where you are driving while the dog is at home and there is no notification at all it’s with you?
phoenix1984 t1_j9lor7p wrote
It wouldn’t automatically be shared with her. It’s all opt in. I would send an invite and she could accept it. Either of us could leave at any time. Once or twice a year my phone gives me a privacy review notification where it walks me through the data I’m sharing with apps and others, allowing me to change it.
If my wife decides to put the dog AirTag in my car, she could, but I could also check that any time I wanted. If I didn’t want her to see my location, I would check which devices are sharing location and where they are. Since it’s opt in and Apple has those periodic privacy reviews, I think the level of risk is low.
The current approach of spamming AirTag notifications when someone who lives with other iPhone users uses them creates a pattern where we learn to ignore them, which is a far bigger risk.
The only real alternative is to not have the technology exist at all. That’s not going to happen. I’d rather it be done by a responsible company like apple than someone who doesn’t take these precautions.
moofie74 t1_j9n9y3n wrote
Yup. And if I am an evil partner, I can get my target partner’s phone and accept the invitation.
I’d love shared AirTags because I’m not evil. I also totally understand why it is the way it is.
GummyKibble t1_j9pbppl wrote
Just like Find My Friends, which already exists.
Curious_Charge9431 t1_j9ndk4h wrote
> Either of us could leave at any time.
But not cleanly. The problem with this is in the domestic violence or stalking situation is that it becomes known to the other person that the AirTag has stopped sharing. (It doesn't matter if it happens through notification or the AirTag disappears from the other person's screen.)
Until the person stops sharing their AirTag the location is shared with the other person and so is something of a route to some point where the AirTag sharing is then turned off.
One way around this is to allow a scramble AirTag location, whereby the person can press a button and the AirTag location is reported as somewhere random and different.
>The only real alternative is to not have the technology exist at all. That’s not going to happen.
I just watched a company attempt to create a fictional $1 million contractural fine for misuse of their product. They may not be able to make this one work out.
engwish t1_j9nwd91 wrote
I understand both arguments, but if you have already enabled family location sharing which shares every device with your family members then I don’t see why AirTags couldn’t be added as well. If privacy is a major concern for DA, Apple should consider regularly reminding folks that they’re sharing their location with their family and give finer controls over what can be shared/not shared.
acosmichippo t1_j9kojz8 wrote
of course it would require opt-in from your family and opt out available at any time. then the AirTag should default to functioning like an unshared AirTag. that doesn't seem like it would be too hard for apple to do.
earthwormjim91 t1_j9lein7 wrote
Which wouldn't be an issue with family sharing already. I mean, my wife and I have family sharing set up with our locations in Find My. We can always see where each others' devices are.
tylerderped t1_j9ktonb wrote
Not allowing it to be shared doesn’t fix that tho. You can still stalk someone, it’ll just continuously notify them.
au-smurf t1_j9ocjxc wrote
You can tell it not to alert you. Your phone even makes the offer when it tells you a tag is following you. I learnt this the second day my wife and I got some and I borrowed her keys. Since we share location with each other in family sharing I can see all her tags in find my
AndiCui t1_j9m7nw2 wrote
> There should be a way to share AirTags with family.
Yes, but there is more to it than just turning off alarm for all family AirTags. The way of sharing must take into account that stalking can also come from abusive people in the relationship.
Should every AirTag gets pre-approved from each member of the family? Can the owner just abuse that AirTag even it was told to the family that it was for their keys, for example?
acosmichippo t1_j9m85z6 wrote
It doesn't seem that complicated to me. no pre-approvals, each AirTag share should require opt-in for each family member, and allow opt-out any time. I don't see how that could be abused.
AndiCui t1_j9m9854 wrote
Hypothetical: Bob ask Alice if he can share the AirTag for his keychain. Alice agrees and approves. Bob drops that AirTag into Alice’s bag one day.
The problem is that the AirTag is not bolted on the item that are legitimately to be tracked.
Some scheme that will occasionally inform users on an interval without the phone giving red alarm every time might be necessary. It’s not as simple as approve and disapprove.
Curious_Charge9431 t1_j9nhkz3 wrote
> and allow opt-out any time
The problem with this is in the domestic violence or stalking situation is that it becomes known to the other person that the AirTag has stopped sharing. (It doesn't matter if it happens through notification or the AirTag disappears from the other person's screen.)
Until the person stops sharing their AirTag the location is shared with the other person and so leads to some point where the AirTag sharing is then turned off.
One way around this is to allow a scramble AirTag location, whereby the person can press a button and the AirTag location is reported as somewhere random and different.
OverthinkingMadMan t1_j9o2ruj wrote
Your solution is the same as just removing the air tag and placing it somewhere. That is already an option. So?
For this to be a problem, you first would have to accept a family invite for a tag, then that tag has to be put on you somewhere, without you knowing it and you would have to be unable to see the location yourself.
If that is the intent, then there are better ways to do that without the other person noticing. Just get a dog tracker that used 4G. That doesn't give notifications, doesn't require the partner to accept anything and the partner would be uanble to see the location.
Curious_Charge9431 t1_j9o7176 wrote
The surreptitious tag stalking was less on my mind, more the family with the domestic violence problem. Dropping the tag and leaving it somewhere is a cleaner solution. I'm tempted to think there is some reason why Apple is so hesitant to allow easy tag sharing.
OverthinkingMadMan t1_j9o79j1 wrote
In a family with domestic violence, there are still far easier methods to do this than with these tags. And as I said, the solution with a tag is to just leave it somewhere. If you want to monitor someone without them knowing it, then you can just use systems that work far better towards that application.
Curious_Charge9431 t1_j9o8m3b wrote
I was thinking more of a domestic violence situation that arose after people had agreed to share their tag tracking info. Not the surreptitious tag stalking (monitoring someone without them knowing) situation.
deelowe t1_j9ou1qm wrote
LOL. It's about MONEY. Apple doesn't give a shit about all this.
They don't want to allow air tag sharing because they want people to buy one for each family member instead of just sharing them.
M365Certified t1_j9kjqoz wrote
> It's not supposed to be used as a pet tracker.
There's no issue with using it as a pet tracker. Its not Ideal for it, as the location updates aren't as fast as needed; we have a Fi tracker that notifies us when the dog goes outside "home", it can be put into lost dog mode and updates once a minute or faster (at a cost of battery life). But visiting an in-law our dog escaped the backyard. Neighbor found it and brought them inside for safety. Would have worked great in that case.
joshthor t1_j9kll0m wrote
Yeah I keep one on my dog and it was super helpful when she got out to explore.
It isn’t perfect but since I’m in a city it gives semi up to date info on the location which allowed me to find her much quicker
LigerXT5 t1_j9kbdgu wrote
I haven't had an Apple phone since the 3G way back in 2009, so my understanding is well out of date.
Can you not "link" two accounts together to show both are related/together/married/etc. for stuff like this?
I'd hate to be walking around my own house, and be notified I'm stalked by my wife's purse.
GummyKibble t1_j9kld67 wrote
No, you can’t. My wife and I share our locations with Find My Friends, so it’s not like we don’t know where each other are anyway. And yet if I grab her keys off the counter to run to store, my phone gripes about it. I really wish my phone would:
- Let me to add a specific device to an “allow list”, like “don’t warn me about this device again because I don’t care if my wife’s car key knows where I am”.
- Warn me about trackers not registered to someone I’m already sharing my location with. I don’t care if my wife tracks me. She already is anyway, and vice versa, and it’s consensual.
Air Tag hardware is genuinely great, but it’s so limited by the risk that someone might misuse it that Apple made it hard to use correctly.
And no many times I hear the tired party line that “it’s only meant for misplaced personal items”, they’re perfect for other things like tracking stolen bicycles — or pets. I roll my eyes when people are shocked, shocked!, that anyone’s surprised when someone hangs one on their dog’s collar. “It’s not meant to track your pet, even though it’s almost like someone custom designed it to be absolutely perfect for that use!”
navlelo_ t1_j9kmp79 wrote
I have the same issue. It shouldn’t be hard for Find My to note that users I’m already sharing my location with don’t gain any information from seeing my AirTags.
bubblesaurus t1_j9mkj98 wrote
It’s why we returned them in the end. I really wanted to use them for the dogs, but when they are limited to one person, it makes them moot.
If the dogs got out when I wasn’t home but my brother is, then he can track the beasts down
phoenix1984 t1_j9kpwrz wrote
I think this is the easiest fix. It’d be great if there was a way to share the AirTag with family, but at very least don’t alert when I can already see that person’s location because of their phone or watch.
Necessary-Mousse-882 t1_j9mtufq wrote
You have to set up a Apple ID family share.
earthwormjim91 t1_j9lem7m wrote
Apple does give you the option to not have a specific AirTag notify you though.
GummyKibble t1_j9lx9t4 wrote
Only for a day.
MayoFetish OP t1_j9kchp0 wrote
The account linking would be the solution but it doesn't exist yet.
LigerXT5 t1_j9kczuf wrote
Still brainstorming, another idea I'm thinking through is telling the app said tracker is permitted. How is a good question. Either...
A. I would hold the tracker in question, hit the button on the tracker when the screen prompts, and permits it to be near you. That way the user can't ignore all of them, and not be aware of the tracking, and the user knows exactly where the tracker is physically.
B. I could permit the tracker, but I have the enter the tracker owner's ID (email address or something). Again, allows the user to permit the tracker, and there's still no question that the user knows of the tracker, and who it belongs to.
Impressive_Insect_75 t1_j9kh3tb wrote
How is that different from your partner keys? Do you get alerted every time you drive together to Costco?
earthwormjim91 t1_j9lesmt wrote
AirTags only notify you if an AirTag that isn't yours is following you without the owner nearby. So riding together it wouldn't notify that it's following.
Impressive_Insect_75 t1_j9mlowr wrote
Thx. That makes more sense.
LigerXT5 t1_j9kpkt3 wrote
Considering I don't have any trackers, and I'm going off what Apple advertises, lists in their online information, and common issues people discuss on Reddit (which in itself is questionable to include, lol)...
The only different in this case is the owner, in this case my wifi, is within the same vicinity. My concern is when she's out, say at work when I'm not, and some of her tagged items are sitting at home when I am.
Let's say "Home" is flagged and the alerts don't come up. As mentioned, traveling. Let's say she left a tagged container/item in the car, and I take the car, it'd alert me. That's fine. Let me flag it as to be ignored (different ways as discussed by others and myself here). Or as one other mentioned, let's say I take my wife's keys to take the car, it'd be nagging me too.
vanhalenbr t1_j9ksuvv wrote
It does. I have my wife in my family and I can see her and her devices on “Find My”…. But I cannot leave our dog AirTag as “family”.
jrhiggin t1_j9khrkv wrote
Domestic violence situations come to mind. Carry this tracker or I'll beat the shit out of you.
edit: Domestic violence is brought up in the article.
GrowDaddy t1_j9kh26m wrote
AirTags can't be used for stalking
or
AirTags can be shared with other people
Pick one.
Sharing AirTags creates a new situation where a woman could be forcibly stalked by their spouse that controls the Apple ID. You're basically creating an entirely new class of stalking, not to solve a problem, but to add a feature.
No_Royal_4528 t1_j9kkf7m wrote
> You're basically creating an entirely new class of stalking, not to solve a problem, but to add a feature.
This is true, is there not some way to compromise? Like perhaps every once in a while, while X feet from the other partner's Apple-thingies the user gets prompted to make sure they want to allow them to track them still?
GrowDaddy t1_j9ko72p wrote
The partner could tell they opted out when the tag stops moving. This comes down to risk/reward, lots of risk for Apple on anything related to privacy (stalking), but minor rewards (you can stalk your family pet).
brawnkoh t1_j9kvkrh wrote
You realize it's likely attached to a harness, or a leash, which in fact is an object?
If OP has implanted the air tag directly into the dog we have other problems.
Shaved-Bird t1_j9lv4yn wrote
There are pet symbols when you are assigning the AirTag though?
JimK215 t1_j9kyyuj wrote
> It's not supposed to be used as a pet tracker.
I'm not affiliated with them in any way, but if you are looking for a pet tracker, I'm very happy with Whistle. I've been using it for years and it has helped me find her on two different occasions when my dog got out.
giantpotato t1_j9l0fif wrote
"You're holding it wrong." - Apple
project3way t1_j9m1c5m wrote
We have one on our dog as a precaution and because we got a 4 pack and it was an extra. So why not. It is annoying thought that even though my wife and I are in the “family” I can’t share tags with her. We swap cars all the time and we have air tags on the keys. Both registered under my account but items we both use regularly and I’m sure many others out there do a similar set up. I wish they just added the convenience of having tags be shared with family already.
dewayneestes t1_j9nlj4k wrote
When you get the “stalker alert” I believe there’s an option to say you know the tag and are ok with it following you.
eloquent_beaver t1_j9lj2al wrote
That's just Apple artificially defining how people should use a product that's otherwise self-evidently applicable to a broad domain of use-cases.
Apple can say "We don't want people using AirTags for anti-theft or pet tracking," but people do and will continue to, because they're perfect (but for the annoying notifications that bother legitimate users and alert thieves) for anti-theft and that sort of stuff.
bigsquirrel t1_j9msxvi wrote
Or it’s apple trying to walk an extremely tight line of something with so much potential for abuse and adding functionality. They’re fucked either way. Shit, this dude is getting alerts about his dog and it’s “news” on a major website FFS. Imagine if the add the family feature and it’s abuse ends up used for stalking. Which as others have pointed out would be very simple.
It’s just not as simple as “let people do what they want”.
eloquent_beaver t1_j9mucmf wrote
No other GPS or bluetooth tracker does it, because it's not an in-scope problem for item trackers. Tiles, dog trackers, smart watches, Android phones, and hundreds of GPS tracker products never had any issue with this because no one ever cared. Apple made it into a problem. Kind of like their iCloud photos scanning feature—nobody asked for it, but Apple decided to make it an issue, and by virtue of their declaring it a huge problem, it suddenly was one for a vocal minority.
People who wanna do dumb criminal stuff can use any number of cheap, effective tools (any of the non-Apple products listed above will do), and it's their and law enforcement's problem.
But people don't like perfectly useful products being artificially handicapped for a truly marginal amount of additional hypothetical safety. People are going to continue to put AirTags and Tiles on their airport luggage and on their bikes and cars, because they want to be able to track their stuff down when it gets stolen.
bigsquirrel t1_j9mv2e2 wrote
Apple decided everything they do is under much more scrutiny than most other manufacturers, this ridiculous article on a major news outlet is a perfect example. They did this for some simple reasons, to avoid lawsuits and regulation or more simply put $$$. “We’ll Timmy did it and he didn’t get into trouble” isn’t exactly a great argument in court.
Maybe those other manufacturers should have the same functionality but they can’t. Apple can, and in the case of litigation they’re covering their ass.
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