Comments

You must log in or register to comment.

Ahab_Ali t1_jcb2aee wrote

It is no secret that while your country may be a democracy, your company is most likely a dictatorship.

321

colonel_beeeees t1_jcb6w5f wrote

I like how Americans think that they live in a democracy when they have no democratic control over their authoritarian workplaces, where they spend most of their days

184

ShakaWTWF t1_jcbegf7 wrote

Nah, I got a pretty good Union and my company is pretty generous anyway (free health insurance, unlimited sick days, optional Friday “work from home”days, performance based bonuses, etc.)

I know this isn’t necessarily the case for everyone tho.

67

colonel_beeeees t1_jcben02 wrote

Yup! Wish I was in a unionized workforce

32

ShakaWTWF t1_jcbgcuf wrote

It’s nice when you have a good Union. I’ve worked places with shitty Unions too, which was almost as bad as not having one.

That said, working for a good company helps too.

34

Toxicz t1_jccvidv wrote

Insane to imagien that you need a Union to have a healthy work environment (as a European).

10

engineeringstoned t1_jceeow1 wrote

You might want to look at the difference unions made - and continue to make - in Europe.

The 5 day work week did not happen by accident.

6

FirmEstablishment941 t1_jccwdw3 wrote

It’s not essential… some times the proximity of one is enough… unfortunately Canada is following USAs lead on that front in many ways… at least we’re more closely aligned to the eu with respect to parental leave.

4

ddraeg t1_jcfntdt wrote

How do you imagine your work environemnt turned out that way?

1

arbutus1440 t1_jcbd9m8 wrote

That's such a weird way of putting it.

I think more Americans realize how post-democracy we are than you think.

And our "authoritarian workplaces" are a shitty example. How about the fact that our government just took away abortion rights that almost everybody wants, that climate change is ignored despite the majority wanting it addressed, or the fact that large companies get to dump waste, steal wages, predate on lenders, and rig prices with impunity?

FFS everybody stop making fascism about PERSONAL FAILINGS of such and such a population. The rise and fall of authoritarianism is a force of history, and we have to fight it for what it is, not what makes it easy for us to pigeonhole and redirect so we don't feel any personal responsibility to act.

30

E_Snap t1_jcckyyi wrote

It is about personal failings of the population though. If we were able to stop rabidly chasing our own goals at the expense of everyone else, the political elite couldn’t divide and conquer us. Here’s a video explaining how this happens. By manipulating the order in which policies are voted on and always making sure that each successive policy alienates a different out group, politicians play our selfish interests against each other to get us to vote our way out of a stable compromise and into a legal policy that no demographic wants.

This is to say: when politicians start pandering to a rotating cast of a slight majority of the population and telling each group left that they already had their turn and to wait, that’s tantamount to gerrymandering. “Progressive” politics (in name only, obviously) repeatedly fall prey to this. They’ll strategically let each demographic successively drag the window of what is appropriate far into their own court. This wild back-and-forth-and-to-the-side swinging eventually walks the window into a portion of “legal policy space” where the obvious and easily passable compromise between all demographics is something that would be considered shocking and outlandish to most of the general population.

0

arbutus1440 t1_jccwhkx wrote

I really don't get why people keep framing it this way. Scientifically, and from an evolutionary perspective, it's utter nonsense.

>chasing our own goals at the expense of everyone else

...is what our species has done throughout its entire existence.

>politicians play our selfish interests against each other

...as they always have, throughout our entire history.

People keep talking about these things as if somehow people could ever do anything different. They can't.

"Human nature" is a phantom opponent. We are who we are. We're not evolved to do things like separate truth from fiction when the truth threatens our well-being. It's just evolutionary fact. People do what they're wired to do, and expecting people to all behave like model citizens when that's literally never happened in the history of our species is just a recipe for frustration and futility.

Focus your ire on the systems. The hippies were right, and they've always been right: It's capitalism. It's the plutocracy. It's the corruption. All of these are reversible—human nature isn't. Stop getting mad at people and start getting mad at systems. It's not emotionally satisfying but it's what's gotta happen if we're gonna survive.

13

E_Snap t1_jccz4ul wrote

Lol no, it’s democracy that’s the problem. Corruption, plutocracy, tribalism, and capitalistic tendencies arise out of even small differences between demographics when they are given the “right” to vote based upon their prejudices, and you’ve already decided that we can’t expect voters to make informed decisions.

People like to slant-quote Churchill and say “Yeah whatever, democracy sucks but it sucks least out of everything we’ve tried,” as if we did a 100% no-reload completion of the game of History and we don’t need to try new things anymore (or give old underutilized ideas another shot). I’m here to say fuck that— we are still evolving our society. Anyone who says that the current status quo is the best we can do is trying to sell you a bridge. All democracy does is placate the masses for trying when the politicians inevitably choose to go their own way anyway.

−11

9Hero t1_jcbd5jb wrote

What does this post have to do with Americans?

12

CoolPractice t1_jcckout wrote

Democracy is a political structure, labor is a socioeconomic structure. Yes we absolutely live in a democracy but the socioeconomic structure for labor is capitalism. Capitalism doesn’t give a shit about who controls the workplace as long as it’s the one with the most money.

Swing and a miss. But nice try shitting on people at the bottom rung for no reason I guess.

1

select_L0L t1_jcbsei1 wrote

The fuck kind of argument is that? “Democratic control over a workplace” is quite possibly the dumbest thing I’ve heard in a while, especially while trying to say that a country isn’t a democracy because of that

0

cheese131999 t1_jcbzg2o wrote

Someone’s never heard of a co-op.

12

select_L0L t1_jcc005s wrote

I think you missed the part in the comment I responded to where the person claimed the US wasn’t a democracy because we don’t have democratic control over our workplace. You quite literally missed the whole point they were making, and yet you still defended it

−6

cheese131999 t1_jcc1mpu wrote

I mean, you said democratic control over the workplace is the dumbest thing you’ve heard in a while, which I think is the dumbest thing that IVE heard in a while. Unions are democratic control over a workplace. If you really meant that calling the US an undemocratic nation by virtue of all of us not all being in unions or co-ops is stupid, you have an actual point there. I still disagree with it, as an American, but at least it’s not extolling your ignorance as a virtue.

5

select_L0L t1_jccg47g wrote

Unions are most definitely not a democratic control over the workplace. Hell, one of the biggest battles for unions is getting the company to listen to them

But yeah, my point was about the US not being a democracy because of that. At least we can agree on that, which was what the original comment was trying to say

−1

cheese131999 t1_jcchxq2 wrote

Ill freely admit I straight up didn't see your second half of the comment, to the point where I thought you edited it until I saw that wasn't the case. My bad, does no one any good to argue against a strawman.

In any case, our unions aren't near as good or as effective as the unions in Europe, and the difficulty they have in trying to get companies to listen to them is indicative of the problems we have. Our democracy is subverted by the cold truth that companies buy out our politicians, which means that unions are disempowered by both federal and state lawmakers.

Our government works to ensure that the work place can only function as a dictatorship, and they push the narrative that unions are weak and ineffectual and just take your money through dues. The government made things this way.

I mean for Christ's sake, Biden busted the most important strike in this country in probably the last three decades, and we're already seeing the horrific consequences.

This country is democratic, more so than a lot of places, but it is wildly less democratic in our day to day lives than a lot of our allies in Europe. It's not hard to see why they think we live in an authoritarian hellhole, because by comparison to what they've got, we freaking do.

7

OwnFeedback3239 t1_jccjym4 wrote

yeah fucking wild, jesus christ. economic literacy is not very common

0

freediverx01 t1_jcesbnw wrote

We have no control over our government either.

0

Javaman2001 t1_jcf83rk wrote

We don’t live in a democracy. We live in Constitional Democratic Republic which is quite different than a democracy.

−1

colonel_beeeees t1_jcfcnnj wrote

I wish WWII vets could zombie out of their graves and slap all you ninnies so willing to give up your say in your govt

1

Javaman2001 t1_jch0vxi wrote

You think I made en error? In The USA you don’t get to vote on any laws, your representative does. And even if all his constituents want him to vote one way he can disagree and vote the other way. The only thing you can do is vote him out office at the next election. Democracy often results in tyranny of the majority over the minorities and often the majority is wrong.

−1

AceWanker3 t1_jcbinln wrote

> they have no democratic control over their authoritarian workplaces

I can leave at any time I want, I can choose where I work

−9

Plebs-_-Placebo t1_jcbjd04 wrote

I once worked with a boss who said about the job, this is a dictatorship not a democracy, and he wasn't really joking.

9

AceWanker3 t1_jcbmat7 wrote

Yeah, and you can leave. Obviously a company isn't a democracy, if you think it should be you are delusional

2

colonel_beeeees t1_jcc5kw5 wrote

Leaving an uncontrollable situation isn't exerting control over a situation

The vast majority of American workers have no real democratic say in their working schedule, environment, or compensation. They spend the majority of their waking life under authoritarian rules

The already mentioned exceptions would be union or co-op workplaces, where workers actually have control/negotiating power

−2

CoolPractice t1_jccotrg wrote

Having agency is the definition of exerting control. No one is holding you hostage at work. If you hate the rules and the situation, leave. Start your own business like millions of Americans do. Find a better job, like millions of Americans do. Study for certs/diplomas if you have to, like millions of Americans do.

It’s incredibly naive to think unions or co-ops don’t have presidents and boards at the top making the important moves. Deciding which votes are made, for what. The IATSE strike threat was a perfect example of this: the workers were in a great dealmaking position when the union leaders drafted a deal that failed to address core issues. It’s always top down, in every situation. The only real solution is to be the decision maker.

Or to simply accept that life doesn’t allow you have 100% of the power 100% of the time.

−1

AceWanker3 t1_jccgemz wrote

It's not authoritarian if it's part of a voluntary exchange. It's like playing monopoly and then complaining that you can't pick where you land, if you hate the rules don't play.

−2

colonel_beeeees t1_jccvq95 wrote

When the alternative to what someone's offering is homeless and starvation, the exchange is no longer voluntary. Hence the term wage slavery

What do you do if no employer in your town is paying a wage that covers the bills? Use your power to leave... to where?

2

AceWanker3 t1_jccxij7 wrote

another town, start a business. If you are angry that you do in fact need to provide the stuff in life you want (food/shelter) then you're problem is with the state of nature

0

colonel_beeeees t1_jcd49n2 wrote

How do you move you and your family to the high paying town with high rents if you haven't been able to find a job that lets you save?

You're also ignoring the again large amount it requires to start a business, when you haven't been able to save. All it takes is a subpar credit score to keep someone from getting a loan

The actual long-term solution is to work to unionize your workplace, or move to co-op/public ownership. Why run from a problem when you can fix it?

1

sosomething t1_jcdyqms wrote

Well here's the awesome thing about geography- there's lots of it.

You don't have to live in a place with a high cost of living.

In most of those places; coastal cities, Chicago, NY; the increase in your wages isn't commensurate with the increased cost of living compared to an emerging city or town. Someone making $80k in Cincinnati lives a lot better than the same person making $120k in Chicago. And that's only if your skills are the type that aren't marketable in towns without a tech sector. Although with emergent decentralized workforces and remote work, even that is becoming less of a factor.

I could do my job from anywhere with a halfway decent ISP, which means I could do it for any company that wanted to hire me and then live more or less wherever I wanted. Why, then, would I choose to pay $2000/mo for a shitty apartment in a major city when I could live like a king somewhere else?

0

luna_beam_space t1_jcb72rk wrote

All Dictatorships masquerade as democracies

6

vezwyx t1_jce0syd wrote

In name maybe, but many of them pretty blatantly drop the pretense of democratic control otherwise. Like "we're dissolving parliament and making my emergency powers permanent by law" blatant

1

SuperMack99 t1_jcbljhf wrote

Every boss I've ever had (that i was close enough to talk to) has proudly said "this is not a democracy" in my time at their company.

3

Sp3llbind3r t1_jcedvav wrote

You know, italy has a right wing, at least boarderline facist government now? And they are still trying to look not facist?

So nobody is really surprised by their fascist buddys doing fascist things?

3

red286 t1_jcctx9s wrote

That may be true, but outright referring to your company as "fascism" is maybe not a good look?

1

Javaman2001 t1_jcf8bu0 wrote

If you are referring to the USA, we don’t have a democracy. We have a Constitional Democratic Republic.

0

MrDoctorJr206 t1_jcaz67e wrote

Dwight?

104

limitless__ t1_jcb1grp wrote

For real. This guy is probably a huge office fan and is pulling a Dwight but it flew 10,000 feet over everyone's heads. Unfortunately quoting Mussolini, even as a joke, isn't a good look in Italy.

73

Crimbobimbobippitybo t1_jcb2r1t wrote

Give it a few years under Meloni and that might change. 😔

45

gozba t1_jcbeplm wrote

She openly admired the times when the white Italian Trump was leading their country

27

Adorable-Slip2260 t1_jcb6qen wrote

He was appointed by the fascist PM who idolizes Mussolini. This isn’t a Dwight reference.

36

[deleted] t1_jcdfqso wrote

Huh? They literally vote in politicians who openly admire Mussolini, including relatives of…Mussolini. Italians in general are extremely right wing. Try finding an Italian Australian who doesn’t vote LNP, even the working class Italians vote conservative

5

Pleasant_Skill2956 t1_jcf1trt wrote

Australian Italians are Australians. If Italians are so far right how do you explain that this is the first far right PM since WW2 and he won with 8 million votes out of 60?

2

deaddonkey t1_jcf3je9 wrote

This is Italy, not Colorado, the context is a bit different.

1

Whats-A-Justin t1_jcbcp0m wrote

And so did Dwight from the office. Literally, there’s an episode where Jim gives him talking points and they’re speeches from Benito Mussolini

21

thisisinsider t1_jcc64bj wrote

From reporter Sawdah Bhaimiya, "The boss of an Italian government-controlled technology company resigned after he quoted the fascist dictator Benito Mussolini in an internal email, according to numerous reports.

Claudio Anastasio resigned as the chairman of 3-I — a tech company that provides software services for Italy's welfare and statistics agencies — on Tuesday, two government sources told Reuters. The story was also reported by Italian newspaper La Repubblica.

Anastasio, who was appointed by Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni in November, sent an inauguration email to board members quoting Mussolini, who ruled Italy as a dictator from 1922 to 1943.

The former chairman quoted from a 1925 Mussolini speech and tweaked it to substitute the word "fascism" for "3-I," per the Times of London.

"But then, oh gentlemen, what butterflies shall we seek under the arch of Titus? Well, I declare here, before you and before the entire Italian government, that I assume (I alone!) responsibility for 3-I (political! moral! historical!) of everything that has happened," Anastasio wrote in the email.

"If more or less distorted phrases are enough to hang a man, out with the gallows and out with the rope! If 3-I was my fault, the responsibility for this is mine, because I have contributed through my role to the historic, political, and moral climate."

Anastasio provided no clear reasoning for his unusual choice of quote, the Times wrote."

21

WoolyLawnsChi t1_jcbm0me wrote

You know

Corporate Heirachries seem to attract a very specific type of person

and maybe that's bad

17

BigWingedDuck t1_jcb1uvx wrote

that was a mistake...he didn't mean to resign

14

Bipedal_Warlock t1_jcdd31i wrote

Yeah isn’t the woman who appointed this dude leading Mussolini’s party?

4

AaruIsBoss t1_jcdmktm wrote

“Blood alone moves the wheels of history! Have you ever asked yourselves in an hour of meditation, which everyone finds during the day,how long we have been striving for greatness? Not only the years we've been at war, the war of work, but from the moment as a child when we realized that the world could be conquered. It has been a lifetime struggle. A never-ending fight. I say to you, and you will understand that it is a privilege to fight! We are warriors! Salesmen of north-eastern Pennsylvania, I ask you once more: Rise and be worthy of this historical hour! No revolution is worth anything unless it can defend itself! Some people will tell you salesman is a bad word. They'll conjure up images of used car dealers and door to door charlatans. This is our duty: to change their perception. I say salesmen... and women of the world unite! We must never acquiesce for it is together, TOGETHER, THAT WE PREVAIL! We must never cede control of the motherland! For it is together that [the audience] we prevail!"

13

The_IT_Dude_ t1_jcbdaxs wrote

It's almost like narcissistic people are often put into positions of power, especially in the tech industry, and like 1% of the time, something wonderful like this happens, they out themselves, and things can be set right lol

4

Shot-Spray5935 t1_jccgvs1 wrote

It's a government controlled company. People who are in a position of power there probably get it through nepotism or such. People like that often are the worst, incompetent and arrogant.

2

-Gramsci- t1_jccqhdb wrote

Meloni palling around with Mussolini stans is something we all had on our bingo cards.

3

blacpanda95 t1_jcczs9q wrote

It’s giving Dwight Schrute vibes

3

Jarnagua t1_jcbjbtw wrote

He should have said it was a Taylor Swift quote.

1

ghigoli t1_jcfvco9 wrote

should of quoted Brittany spears

"work bitch"

1

Worried_Ad6191 t1_jcecsjl wrote

My team lead referred to me and a other guy as Double D’s since both of our names started with a D.

1

Rich_Text82 t1_jcejkjc wrote

Fascists gonna fascist. Shocker...

1

tuana122000 t1_jcf7a9u wrote

A Fascist party leader and famous admirer of Mussolini appoint another sycophant...

1

Hamish_Ben t1_jcfm2sx wrote

Came here for the Dwight Schrute comments. Was not disappointed.

1

Efficient_Mix_9031 t1_jcd1awh wrote

Mussolini did nothing but eat shit too, even amongst facist. I mean hitlers Germany punched way above its weight so that’s something to respect if you just don’t care about morals, which you obviously should

−1

memberjan6 t1_jcbcbeo wrote

Was he quoting in support or against though?

I like to quote Trump. Do you think I support Mango Mussolini now?

−5

silvaifrondosai t1_jcbmjr5 wrote

As the article says, "In the original speech, Mussolini asserted his power over Italy and admitted to murdering his opponent Giacomo Matteotti, a politician who had criticized the government." But surely he wasn't supporting Mussolini quoting that speech/s Maybe next time, try reading the actual article: The quote is just in the first paragraphs.

12

WWMWPOD t1_jcbykaj wrote

Read the damn article... jfc. It says all of the context right there.

Also, if you quote Trump, you either are a supporter of his or just trolling.

3

sosomething t1_jcdz805 wrote

> Also, if you quote Trump, you either are a supporter of his or just trolling.

That's weird, I just quoted you, and I don't agree with this at all.

2