nhavar t1_iydpbgc wrote on November 30, 2022 at 5:11 PM

Reply to comment by alc4pwned in Competitors chip away at Tesla's US electric vehicle share by Sorin61

Car buyers are increasingly using the internet to find dealerships that go at or below MSRP especially with EV's lately. Manufacturers are also leaning toward direct to consumer to cut out those markups and take more of the profit for themselves. Dealers are seeing the writing on the wall.

Your main argument was about affordability not margin, not profit, not features, affordability.

About a year and a half ago now I bought the 2022 Bolt EV 2lt. This was before the price drop. I got it for 4k below MSRP. At the time I was also looking at the Model 3 which was significantly more than the Bolt for not a lot of added value for me. Range was my biggest concern. The Bolt gets 269 miles. The Model 3 gets 273 miles. 4 miles difference for isn't worth 10k or more to me. I don't care if Chevrolet is taking a loss to get a foothold in the market. I care about what comes out of my wallet. That's what most consumers care about.

Companies like Chevrolet will start having more vehicles in that just under 30k market space trying to work their way down to the subcompact market eventually. At the same time they're improving their profitability in the premium and luxury markets by offering their best selling models as updated EV versions and having a hard time keeping up with demand. That means they have some room for going higher on price on those models and finding space for manufacturing improvements to get to market faster at lower cost. That's a constant process within the automotive industry. Companies are investing in their own battery tech, finding strategic partnerships, figuring out recycling, and looking at all the ways they can significantly reduce costs by switching to EV manufacturing in the long term. So prices will be driven down.

alc4pwned t1_iydr6j5 wrote on November 30, 2022 at 5:23 PM

Most EVs are definitely not going for MSRP. Yes you can find dealerships that will allow you to order for MSRP, but you’re going to be waiting for a very very long time for that car to arrive if it’s a desirable model like the Ioniq 5. As in, a year or more.

Yes, I am talking about affordability specifically for vehicles comparable to the Model 3. The Bolt is in a different category. It’s much smaller, is pretty low performance, and has a spartan interior. Say what you want about Tesla QC, but their interior is obviously more upscale.

The Bolt was also much easier to find around the timeframe you’re talking about because of all the battery fire issues. So, that’s a thing.

> I care about what comes out of my wallet. That's what most consumers care about.

It’s what some consumers care about. If all consumers were like you, the average new car value wouldn’t be $46k. The Bolt is not a new car, it’s been around for a while now. Tesla has massively outsold it despite being more expensive. Cost is definitely not the top priority of a good chunk of consumers.

> Companies like Chevrolet will start having more vehicles in that just under 30k market space trying to work their way down to the subcompact market eventually

Have you seen their pricing on the Silverado EV and the Hummer EV? GM makes a cheap EV yes, but I don’t think that’s where their focus will be moving forward. Their whole business is centered around selling huge expensive vehicles currently.

nhavar t1_iye9spr wrote on November 30, 2022 at 7:22 PM

You're talking in circles. The conversation was about affordability. That's where you started and now your propping up why it's okay that the Tesla isn't affordable and should be in the premium space. Cost is absolutely a huge driver for tons of consumers. Discounting that is just stupid. A huge argument happening right now against EVs is about affordability to the budget minded segment of the population looking to replace their current vehicles.

Then you go on to ignore everything I said about how traditional car makers will fill up both the budget end and the premium end of the market with their vehicles (e.g. the Silverado EV and Hummer EV are in that premium part of the market). You're not even listening, you're just responding. Good luck talking to yourself.

alc4pwned t1_iyebtxz wrote on November 30, 2022 at 7:36 PM

I'm talking about affordability within the same product category. The Bolt is clearly not in that category. Your argument here is akin to complaining that the Mercedes S Class is overpriced because the Toyota Corolla is cheaper.

I think I responded to your argument, I didn't ignore it. Disagreeing with you is not the same thing as ignoring you.